Behind The Stack

Second Quarter Favs with Renee from @itsbooktalk

• Brett Benner • Season 3 • Episode 88

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0:00 | 53:53

Brett sits down with Renee from @itsbooktalk to talk about our favs from quarter two. A total of ten books including: 

-Celestial Lights by Cecile Pin

-In the Days of My Youth, I Was Told What It Means To Be a Man by Tom Junod

-Smile or You're Doing It Wrong by Andy Glaze

-Villa Coco by Andrew Sean Greer

-Wonderland by Jennifer Hiller

-Fruit Fly by Josh Silver

-Kingfisher by Rosie Kelly

-Transcription by Ben Lerner

-Count the Ways by Joyce Maynard

-London Falling by Patrick Radden Keefe

Renee's substack:

https://itsbooktalk.substack.com/

Renee's instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/itsbooktalk/

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https://www.bookshop.org/shop/brettsbookstack

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https://www.instagram.com/bretts.book.stack

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brettsbookstack@gmail.com

Brett Benner

Hey, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Behind the Stack, where today I am always thrilled to be joined by my friend Renée from Its Book Talk for us to do our, second quarter faves. This is becoming a regular thing for us that we're gonna be talking about today. It, it's so funny because we were talking before we started because the two of us had so many problems, technical problems that is, figuring things out today. So I'm glad we got it figured out, but we were literally like the old people who were sitting there yelling, "Can you hear me now?" At each other on the screen. So Renée, I'm, I'm so glad you're here. We're talking today about second quarter faves and what stood out for us. So I said to Renée we were gonna talk about five books in particular that we really liked, and hopefully you have five.

Renee

I do. I do

Brett Benner

Awesome. S- so yeah. Overall, how was your your second quarter?

Renee

Hello. Hello to you. So I've already talked to you, but hello to your listeners. Thanks for having me back. My actually, I'm glad that you asked me to do that because I could- I would've told you that I thought my second quarter was worse, but turns out it was better. And I don't know I think it's because I had a bit more memorable book... Some of the books that are staying with me right now are probably top 10 books that were January, February reads. So I think that's why I feel like that. But overall, so quarter-wise, this quarter was better. I read 19 books versus 18 books in the first quarter. My reading's a little slower on quantity because I'm doing the book coaching, which I'm coming into my final part of that, and so my reading will pick up for the next As soon as I get this last part done, my reading will pick back up. But I'm being extra picky with what I'm reading, so my quality is super high. So of those 18 books this quarter, 11 were four stars and above.

Brett Benner

Wow.

Renee

Only staying with books that I'm like, "Yeah, I pretty much like this." And Oh, I take that back. Wait. 12. 12 of the books were four stars and above and seven of those were five stars. So I'm not sticking with books that I'm not feeling for the most part. Although I did just finish something literally two days ago, and I, if I was reading the print book I would've thrown it across the room. I'm gonna have to tell your audience because even though you didn't tell me to bring a book that we ended up greatly disliking or hating,

Brett Benner

No, I wanna

Renee

don't know that I hated it. I don't know that I hated it, but I hated the ending with an absolute passion. It was The Guest by Emma Cline

Brett Benner

Oh, interesting. Okay

Renee

Yeah. So that has been my worst book of this quarter, even though you didn't ask for that question.

Brett Benner

No, I love that

Renee

yeah how about you? I, and I can't wait to hear what you're reading because I've been so off of Instagram, I'm not actually sure what you've been reading

Brett Benner

You know what? Th- this was a really good quarter for me, in terms of quality. But I read 27 books this this

Renee

Oh gosh, yeah

Brett Benner

but I d- I read 33 the first. So I actually thought I read more but I found it's interesting going back, 'cause now we're into all the heavy hitters that are coming out for summer. And so what I've found somewhat is I've had a lot of books that I've been like four-star, totally good books, a lot of totally solid debuts. But the things that I've been like, "Oh my God, these are fantastic," like favorite of the year, that started to narrow a little bit, and I was surprised. I was surprised about that. I was like, "Okay." And don't get me wrong good stuff, but And I've gone all over the place. I'm, I've read some backlist stuff, a lot of frontlist and a lot of stuff that's coming out. And it's interesting 'cause I can almost do a whole list of my favorites of the year just from these last two months, which is crazy. 'Cause again, I think it's a

Renee

Oh, okay

Brett Benner

coming out. And it's so funny because I was trying to finish two books before this call, 'cause we're recording this before the actual end of the month. F- technically there's a, there's a w- about a week left of the month, and I'm gonna finish these two books this week, and I know that both of them are g- probably gonna end up on my, at least, very close to some of my best of the year. So I was, like, trying to get them done for today, and I was like, "I can't get them done."

Renee

Are you more new release heavy or

Brett Benner

I've been a lot of new release heavy. And some of it is just trying to get ahead of stuff for the podcast, but also, yeah, and then all these things that are coming out for the summer that I didn't get read before that are just getting released now that I've been loving. Yeah, I'm interested to see where the third quarter goes, and, the fourth quarter is always a, almost a wash to me. It's catch up. Do you know what I mean? It's catch up and see what else do you wanna get, 'cause they, the releases stop coming. But some of it I've just been like, "Oh my God, new things need to stop coming out."

Renee

Oh, there's so much. Most of my reading, the majority of my reading is backlist for this quarter and the other, and the first quarter. But I have three new releases in my top five here, and I have changed the order. I didn't know if we were going in order, but I changed the order three different times. So I love all of these books and, but I will, I did put them in order because I couldn't remember if we were doing that. But I love these books, and I'm surprised that three new releases ended up in my top. But I've changed the order of the five of them. So they- I love all of them, but If you ask me tomorrow, they'll be a different order. But I was surprised that I had three new releases in these fav- five favorites because I would've told you like, "Oh, I don't know about my new release reading. It's been eh." But no, I've got three out of the five that are new releases, a lot of the the big buzzy new releases, i like them. Whistler by Ann Patchett, liked it, but it's not in my top five

Brett Benner

Okay, interesting. 'Cause I was wondering if we were gonna have crossover

Renee

I suspect we might have one, but I'm excited to find out

Brett Benner

Okay, so yeah, It's interesting just pulling up Whistler, 'cause Whistler I will say I'm not gonna use that as one, 'cause I was like, "I wonder if she's gonna use Whistler." And I really liked Whistler, enough that it was, like, in a top 10. But was I like, okay, like contention for best book of the year? N- not for me. Like it was totally solid, but I felt that... That's what I felt like with a lot of these books, where I've been like, "Really good, like totally solid. Would totally recommend this to so many people, and I understand why it's getting so much attention." But I didn't come out of it and was like, "Oh my God, the best..." For example, I know we've talked about this before, but like for me, The Correspondent, when I read The Correspondent, which I immediately knew, "Oh my God, this was so incredible." Or h- the first time I read Hamnet was the same thing. I was like, "Oh my God, this is..." And I really... That experience I've not completely had. I've had so good reads, but not like this i- anyway

Renee

Yeah. My five-star reading, I do feel like that with anything I give five stars. I feel like I love that so much. Oh my God, it's five stars. And it turns out I've had a lot of five stars, so I had a hard time choosing, but I think it all depends on for what you're saying, those are like, those are books that really stand out as, I know this is gonna be my top of the year, and I've had a few of those. So I'm keeping an open mind, but I think I probably have more five stars maybe than you do it sounds like

Brett Benner

And maybe just expectations have changed. I don't know. And maybe my expectations are too severe. I don't know. But I m- and but it's all, let's say really good books. I can't knock the books. And I would totally recommend all of them. But some, but it's just been interesting. I am reading one now that I think could be that best of. But anyway. All right, so give me your first

Renee

I will go in order, but like I said, it could change tomorrow. Okay. So Celestial Lights by Cecile Pin, which is a new release. The audio narration by Dane Williams and Leah Marks is fantastic, so good. I will... I think most of my books I'm talking about today I listened to at least over half of it, and I will tell you if the audio was great, but I think for the most part it was excellent on all of these. This new release is a novel about ambition, love, and space. Now, I don't like space books, and I almost didn't read this, but Annie B. Jones put this on my radar, and when she talked about it, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I need to give that a try." So in the beginning, this is set January 28th, 1986, and I love a 1980s setting. And it takes- In the opening scene, it is soon after the launch of when the Challenger shuttle falls out of the sky and into the sea. I don't know about you, Brett, but I

Brett Benner

Oh my God. Yeah

Renee

grade, and they wheeled the TV in and we were all watching, and then they wheeled the TV out and they were like... I just don't remember being appropriately processed about watching that in eighth grade

Brett Benner

No one talks you through it. No one... Yeah, exactly. No one

Renee

Oh my God.

Brett Benner

kids. We understand." Yes, they were just like, "Whoopsie."

Renee

S- so as soon as that open- I was with the opening scene. It was such a visual. So at the same time that that Challenger launched, Oliver Innes is born, and Celestial Lights is his story. So he will narrate a lot of the book. So this is a story about a complicated man, a tale of memory, and he grows up to be an astronaut. And so it's his story, and he-- and it's also a family story, but it's also a coming-of-age story. It is unforgettable. He, the narrator, will examine what do we owe ourselves? What do we owe our loved ones? And what happens when our ambition and our loyalty collide? And I will say, do not let the space mention or the fact that he's an astronaut or anything deter you. I... It was perfect. It was a perfect amount of, yeah, he's in space. We got it, but we're not gonna overload the reader with that. The space details take a very large backseat to the characters and their stories. This is a mere, I say, but 256 pages, so I thought it was pretty short. It is a brilliant structure. I couldn't wait to see where this was gonna go. I also think it would make an excellent book club pick. There is so much to discuss because Oliver is a very challenging character. Although, on the flip side, it was like, God I get it. If-- what if you were that ambitious about something? But then also on the flip side, what about his family? So that's all I will say. Five stars for me. It's Celestial Lights by Cecil Pin.

Brett Benner

Oh my God. No, see, this sounds right up my wheelhouse because also it's so weird, space is having such a moment, aliens are having such a moment, like all of these things. And I, I- Yes. And I, I remember seeing this come out. I m- I could see the cover with the astronaut and

Renee

Yep, floating

Brett Benner

Yeah. But I'm so glad 'cause I don't really know... I think I know one person who maybe read it, but so I'm g- so glad to hear this. Okay, I'm gonna start with it's so n- n- not characteristic for me normally, 'cause I'm such a fiction guy, but a nonfiction book. And this was to me, it was such a surprise, and so good. It's called, Oh my God, it's called In the Days of My Youth, I Was Told What It Means to Be a Man by Tom Junod. Tom Junod is a celebrated journalist, but one of the things that he was known for is he did a story about Fred Rogers and became friends with Mr. Rogers, and they made it into a movie with Matthew Rhys playing Tom Junod, and Tom Hanks was Fred Rogers. But it was this moment for him discovering this man and... But this particular book, it says, "From the two-time National Magazine Award winner, Tom Junod, a searching, brilliantly stylized memoir about a charismatic, philandering father who tried to mold his son in his image, the many secrets he hid, the son's obsessive quest to uncover them, and ultimately the true meaning of manhood." okay, this thing was so good, and first of all, I will say I listened to this on audio, and he reads it. And the reason he said he read it is because he did not feel that any reader could adequately capture his father's voice and the way his father spoke. It is brilliant. I saw it one day in Kirkus Review or Publishers Weekly, one of the two, talking about reviewing audiobooks, and they starred this as a phenomenal audiobook. And it's, it really starts with this story of this, young boy who's very sensitive growing up with this father who's uber masculine, who exudes sex appeal, who's a womanizer. But what happens is it really begins to become almost like a mystery as he starts to uncover all of these secrets about his father and, larger, his family and what gets uncovered. It's brilliant. I just I loved it so much and I was really moved by it. And it almost plays like two different books. It almost plays like a coming-of-age story, and then part of it is a mystery. And it really brings in a lot of questions of again, we're talking about the '80s and The Challenger, but also growing up in that time period and I remember having a dad that was nonexistent and also just being around what it was to parent then. And I think it almost feels like a representation of kind of that Mad Men-esque kind of time period where the dads went to work and had martini lunches and the wives stayed at home and were really just c- thought to be you're a housewife and you're raising children and that's your thing. It's a great book. I would highly recommend it. So- That's my first. Once again, that long title is In The Days of My Youth, I Was Told What It Means to Be a Man. So

Renee

That title is so hard to remember.

Brett Benner

I know, so hard. I know it's so long. It's whatever

Renee

Oh my gosh. But I wanna... I'm gonna get that immediately. I haven't heard of it. Did you p- you probably posted it on Instagram. You-

Brett Benner

I reviewed it on Instagram and then I, and it was funny 'cause the publisher had reached out and said, "Would, would you..." I think they might have said it and then I didn't see it right away, and then I read something about it, and I was like, "I would love to read that." And so they sent it and the audio was on Penguin Random House and I started it, and I was like, "Oh my gosh." I was just sucked in. So

Renee

Yeah

Brett Benner

it's great. And I'm, I wouldn't be surprised if we see this on end of year lists or prize lists or something. But it's great.

Renee

Okay, you had me at all of that, plus, but mainly family secrets and so yeah, I'm gonna give that a try. I love... Okay, I'm segueing into a n- a nonfiction also, a memoir. And I love this book so much, and another one that I would never have picked up if my son didn't recommend it to me. It's called Smile or You're Doing It Wrong by Andy Glaze. It is a new release. Andy Glaze is an ultra runner, a firefighter, and a father. And my son had been bugging me to read this book. I am not a runner, let alone an ultra runner. So I did not think... I read it only because he was hounding me to read it and said he thought I would like it. I loved it. This is Andy's memoir. He, it, on the surface it seems oh, this is a book about running. It is, but also this is a book About pulling yourself up, about resilience, about what's possible because ultra runner Andy Glaze has spent years moving through landscapes that test the limits of the human body, 100-mile races, multi-day mar- marathons, mountains, and deserts. But the toughest endurance challenge Andy faced wasn't found in any of those miles. It was in rebuilding a life shattered by addiction, institutional abuse, and a childhood full of chaos. So this is the unfiltered story of how a kid fell hard but got back up even harder. So in the beginning of this story, we are thrown right in. Andy is 16. There's not a lot of childhood build-up. We just know he's 16. His parents are at their wit's end. They send him... He's addicted to meth. They send him to one of the wilderness, quote unquote, reform programs, and that was just a harrow- it was harrowing as a parent to read about that. Then he went to another place from there, and the story literally takes, the story takes off from the beginning. He is a, an excellent writer. I listened to this on audio. He narrates. It is fantastic. This is about how did he go from wilderness reform school, ad- addicted to drugs, to becoming a firefighter, becoming a father, a husband, and an ultra runner. His journey is, at times, astonishing. It's sad. It's funny. I laughed several times. It's insightful. It's dramatic, and it's inspiring. What I loved especially about this, even despite all of that, was the fact that this is so accessible. Anyone can pick this up and find something that would apply to your life or your listener's life. And I guarantee it, I promise, you will find something. There is an emphasis in this story, which I really loved, on the fact that failure can teach us so much. We've heard that, right? But there's also power in not only learning from that failure, but the power to show up again and again, and that is what I really loved about this, along with just his story and the way he told it. I was unprepared to cry, really unprepared. I was walking at the park. So my advice is keep tissues handy. I finished this book with a smile, pun intended, and a desire to go back and read from the beginning. So what I ended up... I, I- son and me. And then turns out last month, yeah, I think it was, I think it was Memorial Day weekend, Andy, with another runner, flew into Cincinnati. We live in Columbus. He ran from Cincinnati to Columbus, and then my son joined his last 18 miles and ran with the group. He had a ton of people running the la- Like, my son ran the last 18 miles into this park in Columbus, and so Darren and I went and saw him, saw my, our son run in with Andy, and then I got to meet him and he signed my book.

Brett Benner

That's amazing.

Renee

amazing. It was amazing. He was such a nice guy. But that was, like, s- such a fun experience after having, just read his book, and he was like thank you for buying my book."

Brett Benner

Oh my God

Renee

It was so nice. But isn't that fun?

Brett Benner

That sounds incredible. All of it. The book sounds amazing, but how... What an amazing, what amazing experience at the end. It bring it all home. That's crazy

Renee

And I'll tell you the title 'cause it's also a long one again. Smile or You're Doing It Wrong by Andy Glaze

Brett Benner

That sounds awesome. Okay.

Renee

it

Brett Benner

All right, my next this was a surprise for me only because. I didn't like this guy's first novel, and I did read his second, and I thought it was okay. But I loved this, and I think it was just time and place, and I was ready for something that was, that felt like a summer book, that felt like escapist. He, the author, is Andrew Sean Greer. And I was talking originally about Less. I was not a fan. I didn't love Less, but I did read Less Is More, the second one, and I was like, "Okay." But his new one, Villa Coco I really loved it. And I just, again, I don't know, I tapped in. This is a story about a young man who's a student, he's 21 years old who's an archi- an archivist who goes, takes a job in Tuscany assisting this old aristocrat in her home archiving all of her artwork. And it really follows this summer with him meeting all of her eccentric friends and family members, and being in the Tuscan countryside, and having an affair, and learning about the culture, and just trying to fit in. I don't know. I was completely transported by this thing. I thought it was so funny. I thought that these characters were larger than life, but they all just They were so colorful to me, and I really you have this thing where it's like I didn't wanna leave. I just wanted to stay there. And I just felt it was evocative of time and place. And it just feels for me, it was the perfect, now that we're into officially summer, it's like the what a summer book should be. Which is escapist, and fun, and a little bit romantic, and a little bit melancholy, and a little bit wistful. I just thought it was great. And I listened and read this, and I would say the audio was great on this as well. So that is Villa Coco by Andrew Sean Greer.

Renee

Okay. I have that on my TBR. Very excited that you like that, and yeah I'm excited to get to that and go to Italy for a little bit. That sounds like such a good summer read. Okay, I have a good summer read, although mine involves a serial killer.

Brett Benner

Oh my God.

Renee

It's been a while since I've read a serial killer thriller, and I loved It Is Wonderland by Jennifer Hillier. This is so backlist. I think 2015. I don't know how I had not read it, but this story is set at Wonderland, which is a fictional amusement park located in the fictional small town of Seaside, Washington, and it delivers thrills and a great mystery. Ugh, my sweet spot, both of them in one story. For me, there's something about amusement parks that screams nostalgia, also summertime, and it is a great setting for a serial killer thriller. And in Wonderland, it begins with one of the best opening scenes I've read in a long time. There is a teenager, and he's a free climber, and he decides to scale the Ferris wi- wheel that's on the cover of the book. All right? That's all I will say. It's chilling, oh my gosh, and it is not long before the first dead body turns up, and then we meet newly appointed deputy police chief, Vanessa Castro. And I personally love a smart, no-nonsense female in charge, and I very much enjoyed Vanessa's character. I love that we got details about her home life. Not too much, just enough. She's a widow. She has a 14-year-old daughter who's just gotten a job at Wonderland, And a young son, of course. I love that her daughter got a job there because it just adds to everything. Now, speaking of adding to it, you gotta add to the mix a potentially psychopathic female CEO of Wonderland, a sketchy security guard, and the realization that there seems to be many past male employees of Wonderland who are missing or dead, and the question of a serial killer in the midst becomes front and center. I'm gonna leave it there. I listened to this, then I switched to my Kindle because I could not stop. I had to be im- I was 100% immersed in the story. Just about every person was a suspect, so needless to say, I did not have this figured out. I finished and I was like, played, Jennifer Hillier. Played." This was a total binge read. If you like- thrillers and you don't, and it's not, it, th- there's some parts that are pretty on the darker side, but oh my gosh,

Brett Benner

No.

Renee

parks, this is for you. Totally

Brett Benner

funny thing I know this book. I've seen the cover. I- it's like when I first started on Instagram, I remember Jordy Jordan Moblo was talking about how amazing this book was. And so I have to look when we get off to see if I actually bought the Kindle of it, like way back in the day and just never did it. But oh my God, I'm so glad, like hearing this more in detail, I have... This is like perfect summer book. I have to read

Renee

It is perfect. So that one was Wonderland by Jennifer Hillier. Eee, so good

Brett Benner

Okay. All right, this next book, for me, was so much fun. It was so interesting, and it's actually not It's not out yet. It's coming out in August. But I was watching this book in London, and I was like, "I have to get it." I didn't wanna wait until it came out, so I got a copy from London. The book is called Fruit Fly by Josh Silver. First of all,

Renee

Ooh, I can't wait to hear about this. Okay

Brett Benner

of my favorite covers of the year. The It's a green cover with just An half of the cover is an orange with a fly sitting on top. It's a great cover. So this is about a struggling writer named Mallory who had one big hit novel, like massive hit novel, and has just been in incredible writer's block and not able to come up with an idea. So she's just very stuck, so she goes onto Reddit one day and she puts in a query of "How do you write a bestselling novel? What is it?" And the query comes back and says, "Write a romantasy. Write All the obvious things you would think. And she's "I don't wanna do that. We don't wanna do that." And then at the bottom it says, "Also gay is really in right now. Go dark and go gay." And so she was like, "Huh." And so she thinks about this, and she's maybe I could do something like this." So she takes pictures of her husband sleeping one night, and from that creates a Grindr profile to explore the gay community. And she starts to go into these chat rooms, and she's pretending to be a man, obviously, and a gay man, and she gets invited to a tea party. And she thinks, of course, she shows up with a basket with tea and c- cakes at this house, which it's like a chem sex party, and when she arrives there, she sees this kid getting beat up in the front yard. His name is Leo, and he's the other part of the story. And he's a young kid who is struggling with an addiction who is very smart, but is homeless and literally just trying to survive. So she becomes friends with him and shows up at his addict meeting, and she decides she's going to take his story and write this book. And what happens between the two of them. So each chapter alternates between her story and his story, and the kind of tension that starts to build as this thing gets out of control. She also has her own kind of backstory that starts to come out. She's married. She has a relationship with her husband, that's its own thing, and he definitely has his own strategy or thing going on as well. So it's how this thing is going to ignite and what's gonna happen between the two of them. Oh my God, it is so good. And I started it, and first of all, it's really funny. There are parts of it that she in particular, as she's trying to figure all this out, and, she decides to call the book at one point, she's "I'm gonna call it Slay," 'cause that's what gay people say. And, so she's, trying to get into this whole world. But also, hi- his story is, it's... Oh my God I don't wanna say much more, aside from saying it totally stuck the landing. It brings up a lot of questions about appropriation, about whose is it to tell whose story about addiction, about social media and that discourse. It's great. It's really good. It comes out the beginning of August here, but it's called Fruit Fly by by Josh Silver. Really great.

Renee

Okay. I love your review. I think I have a copy of that, but you... i'm pretty sure I do, but yet I'm listening to you going, "That sounds so good."

Brett Benner

Yeah I think Crooked Lane Media. Crooked Lane is the publisher that's publishing it.

Renee

Oh, that,

Brett Benner

It's really

Renee

to I'm gonna have to bump that up. That sounds so good. All right. Okay, my next one is the one I, we might have a little overlap with, 'cause I do think I texted you about this book. It's Kingfisher by Rosie Kelly

Brett Benner

Oh my God, yes. Yes.

Renee

It's not on your

Brett Benner

did it's not on my list, but I, but it could be, and I absolutely loved it. And I just have to say on a side note, it's so funny that you just mentioned this because I just went into Seattle this weekend for the first time to go to one of their bookstores that I've been dying to go to. Excuse me. And they had it, and it's not out here in the States, but they told me they have a distributor deal and they're getting some books from London. They had one copy, and I was like, "Oh my God, I loved it." But go ahead, sorry.

Renee

Okay. Wait, it's not out in the States? I thought it was out in the

Brett Benner

No, it's not out yet. Nope

Renee

How did I get it from the library?

Brett Benner

Oh, you got it from a... Did you get it as an audio or did you get it as a digital

Renee

yeah, I had the audio f- I had the aud- yeah, I listened to it. I got the audio

Brett Benner

funny 'cause I think some audio stuff is available, but the actual book itself is only published in the UK right now.

Renee

Really? I

Brett Benner

Yeah

Renee

did not know that. Okay. Interesting, 'cause I know some... I wonder if the people in my Substack list-

Brett Benner

If I'm wrong, and people can certainly come back and say, "You're wrong. This is the

Renee

Okay. I definitely listened, so I didn't want to bring something that wasn't available and I definitely got it on Libby. So it's somewhere. But I couldn't ha- the I ha- I could not have a list without this on it. It was almost my number one. I went back and forth. So Kingfisher by Rosie Kelly. It's a debut novel about grief, power, and desire, and the tangles in between that make up a life. This came on my radar because it was shortlisted for the Women's Prize for Fiction. Yeah, that's how... And I was... I hadn't heard of it, and I was like, "Oh, I've read several of these books, so let me try this one." And I loved it. So this is about a creating, writing academic who becomes infatuated with his colleague, who he refers to throughout the book as the poet. And it is not long before begins to threaten his relationship with his partner, Michael. And as he sli- slips between his old life and his new one, his fixation grows into something more powerful. And I finished this in April. I have not stopped thinking about it. Like I said, the audio was excellent. It's British narration. There is plenty of British humor sprinkled throughout, which I absolutely loved. The narrator is something. His voice, he's funny. He... at first I was like, "How-- Are we gonna go dark here?" I'm-- I wasn't quite sure with his obsession, but we're not in Joe Goldberg territory, which at first I was like, "Are we in Joe Goldberg territory?" But we're not. Now, I will say the language from the narrator can be a bit crude, so just know he likes to use the F word. I laughed a lot. And from where this book started tone-wise to how it ended, I... What a range. What a range of tone because I was left riding my bike because I was crying. And it's 212 pages. It's short. I loved it. I would've been thrilled if there was 50 more pages, but I do think that the ending where it was impactful. I'm not mad about the shorter length. I absolutely loved it. I was-- I mean, I'm glad that The Correspondent won, but I was pulling for Kingfisher. I really love this book. It's Kingfisher by Rosie Kelly

Brett Benner

I have to say, I had the same reaction, which is I wanted, obviously I wanted Correspondent to win, but Kingfisher was my second as well. And I loved this too. It just surprised me so much. I had no idea what it was about. And look, it's a weird thing because you always say, writers, like actors you're, they're wr- they're creating, right? But it was just such an interesting thing to me that... It was also that it was a woman's prize

Renee

I guess, yeah

Brett Benner

'Cause the central character was a gay man, and that was a big part of the story. I, but I felt like the point of view was so interesting. He was such a complex character that I found him and the relationship with his mother and but also, his kind of feelings for this poet. And it was really, nuanced, it was beautiful. I thought she was doing so much in such a small amount of pages. I was really blown away by it. It was

Renee

I agree

Brett Benner

it was like it's just a really rich and interesting character study. Really well done

Renee

Yeah. Yeah, I thought she did a great job. I read a couple interviews, and I think she talked about ch- her choice of choosing a male narrator being a woman. But yeah I thought she... I thought she nailed it. It was... His voice was just so strong

Brett Benner

Okay, So my next one... It's funny I will say this on a side note. You spoke last time we were talking about Lake Effect, And I read that this time and that was gonna be one of mine, but I was like, "We've already discussed it." I'm only coming on to say I loved it so

Renee

Oh, good. Good

Brett Benner

So much. And oh my God I just... Ugh, I loved it. I cried.

Renee

isn't it so good?

Brett Benner

it's so good. So good. So that's for both of us,

Renee

that's a two, that's a twofer for us,

Brett Benner

Yes. Okay, so my next one is also a slim book, and again, surprised me, and this is Transcription by Ben Lerner. I had never read Ben Lerner before. I didn't read The Topeka School or anything, but this sounded so interesting to me. And it says, "A narrator travels to interview his 90-year-old mentor, Thomas, but loses his recording device," which was his phone, "leading to an exploration of fathers, sons, male friendship, and parenting during COVID." So what the c- the book is three stories. They're all related with this guy. It's the first, of course, like he said, this guy's going to record his mentor and loses his phone, or he drops his phone in water is what happens. But then the second part of the book is the interview that he had done with his mentor has come out, and it's the kind of it's a award show and they're talking about the mentor, but a lot of other writers are very unhappy with what he wrote and why he wrote it. He has a run-in with this female writer who's saying, what you did i- isn't right." So that's the second story, and it's the smallest. But then the last story is the son of his mentor, who he is friends with. The two of them are together, get together to talk, and it really becomes this story about this son discussing his daughter And I was so moved by this because it really, for anybody who has kids, especially in these days, it really is about, so much about the effects of technology on our, on all of us. But specifically or more intensely on young kids, and in this particular case both of these men have daughters, young daughters, and how it how it is affecting them. And when you look at the rising rates of anxiety with young kids today and and just the difficulties in trying to navigate your life when so much of it is lived out online, and looking for likes, and having people react to you that are strangers, and all of these things, I just found it so incredibly, profoundly moving. I don't know that if I hadn't been a dad, if I would've had the same reaction necessarily. I think I would've appreciated it, but I think because of that, it had a much deeper, profound effect on me, and I just thought it was so telling and beautiful and really thought-provoking. I think it's a really thought-provoking novel about what technology is doing to all of us, and how we've all lost a little bit of our way in relating to each other just as people, because we're doing it all through computers and telephones. And so it's really smart. I'd love to read the rest of his stuff now, Ben Lerner. But it's like I said, it's not a long novel. I listened to this. The narrator was amazing just does a phenomenal job. So yeah, that's Transcription by Ben Lerner.

Renee

that's a great review because I wasn't aware of that aspect of it, that there were daughters or, there was a, a look at technology like that with young kids. So

Brett Benner

It's cool.

Renee

yeah. Gosh, and I think we're gonna get more stories

Brett Benner

I know

Renee

moving forward, which ooh. Okay. All right. Here is my last one, and I went with a saga as my number one because I love sagas. They stand out to me so much the length, but also just how much story is covered. So this one is Count the Ways by Joyce Maynard, and I loved it so much. Another time period that I am into this year. This one starts in Vermont in the early 1970s, and we meet Eleanor and Cam. She's an artist and writer. He makes wooden bowls. So you have two creatives coming together, and within four years they become parents to three children, and Eleanor ends up buying a New Hampshire farm, and she has like a hit book and anyway, the farm ends up providing everything she's always wanted; summer nights watching Cam's softball games, snow days by the fire, and the annual tradition of making paper boats and cork people to launch in this, the brook every spring. And we start to realize if Eleanor and Cam aren't quite as in love as they used to be, they have something that matters more, their family. And then comes a terrible accident. And I want to leave this synopsis there Trust me, the main synopsis on Amazon and Goodreads gives way too much away. This is a book that is best read being surprised. If you've read Joyce Maynard before, I have, and this is what she does so well, character-driven plot twists where things happen and you do not see them coming. She did the same thing in this story. We have a story about two people. They fall in love. They might make a family, and it slowly falls apart. I love the marketing blurb that says, "A mesmerizing family saga-" Costly aftermath that ripples through their lives. Set over years, and the opening scene is so compelling. It's one of those where it's at a time in the future, and then you gotta find out, oh my gosh, how did they get there? And then you go back, and it's brilliant. I worried about the characters. I became completely invested. I was frustrated along the way, and I was sad. Range of emotion. Range of emotion. This is also great on audio, and it's a fantastic saga. It's one that I won't forget. It'll probably be in my top 10. It's Count the Ways by Joyce Maynard.

Brett Benner

That sounds great. That sounds great, too.

Renee

oh, she's so good at sagas

Brett Benner

my God. Okay, now

Renee

your last

Brett Benner

right. I know, and I was looking and I was like, "Okay, am I gonna do this or am I gonna do this?" All right, I think I'm, what I'm gonna do is this one. I'm gonna go back to nonfiction, which is crazy. But I love this book, and again, I've been thinking about this book so much and I almost feel like, "Oh, but it's a bestseller, but whatever, and there's, they're bestsellers for a reason, which is London Falling by Patrick Radden Keefe. The subtitle is A Mysterious Death in a Gilded City and a Family's Search for Truth. I think Patrick Radden Keefe is amazing. I loved Say Nothing. I thought that was incredible. So this book is nuts. It is about a family living in London, very affluent well-to-do, and when the book opens Their son effectively jumps off this high-rise in the city and ends up in the Thames. It's, and it's ruled as a suicide. But they, of course, do not believe that their son would've ever committed suicide because he just wasn't that kind of person. And as the story begins to investigate, we find very quickly, this is not a spoiler, but he has this kid, this young kid has duped, effectively, these mobsters into believing that he is part of a Russian oligarch's family. And what happens and how he gets involved with these guys, it is so crazy. And what Patrick Radden Keefe does so well is you start to go through the story and he lays down track. And I will say, this is not a thriller. It's, true crime. But he takes his time to lay out everything, and there's a moment when I was in about halfway through it, I was like, "I don't understand what these threads are," 'cause he was talking about different characters and laying groundwork and background for these different mobsters, effectively. But then he pulls it all together and begins to pull the ties, and you're like, "Oh, that's what that was, and that's how that stacked on this and that and the other." It's also one of those things where I immediately wanted there to be a Netflix series or some kind of documentary because I w- my only downside to this is I wanted the pictures, I wanted to be able to see, which you can. You can Google everything, and you can find these people, and you can look up these people. But it is a masterpiece of journalistic investigation and just a masterclass in storytelling, and in taking something that's nonfiction and creating it that it feels like fiction. So it's a great book, and I totally get why it is a bestseller. But that's, once again, London Falling: A Mysterious Death in a Gilded City, and a Family's Search for Truth by Patrick Radden Keefe.

Renee

Yeah. That is still on my TBR. It's crazy that, was the first time I'd ever heard of a wild... That story's so wild you would've thought that we would've heard about something like that before this book. I had never heard of it.

Brett Benner

Nope.

Renee

Okay. All right. That's a good one. Do you think it would make a good summer read?

Brett Benner

Yeah, I d- I do think it. I just think I wanna caution people 'cause again, it's not like a thriller. You have to be a little

Renee

Okay. Slower

Brett Benner

yes. But it's, but there are points when it's oh my God, and I just couldn't wait to see, like, how this was all going to unveil itself. It's great.

Renee

Okay

Brett Benner

Okay. I'd also just talk... We talked about perhaps two books that you are looking forward to in the next quarter.

Renee

I've got them.

Brett Benner

Okay. Awesome

Renee

My first is Make Nice by Ryan Efkin, And I love the cover. It's a very summer cover, and we've got a dysfunctional family descending on a ritzy Lake Michigan vacation island. Need I say more? This is a comedy of manners. You have three generations of a family, a snail scientist, which I'm fascinated by that specificity, a soon to be divorcee, her teenage daughter, a hapless con man, and their feckless patriarch, and they are all going to be arriving at the Grand Hotel, which I love a hotel setting in the summer, and what ends up happening, we don't know, They have every intention of spending the long weekend making nice. So who knows what's gonna happen? The publisher is saying this is Sandwich by Katherine Newman meets The Wedding People.

Brett Benner

Oh, I

Renee

I didn't read The Wedding People, but I did love Sandwich, so we'll see how this goes. It's Make Nice by Ryan Efkin, and it comes out July 14

Brett Benner

Okay, that sounds great. Okay, so my first one, I'm so excited about which is American Hagwon, the new book from Min Jin Lee, who wrote Pachinko. I loved Pachinko the book, but I have to say, I don't know if you ever watched the Apple TV series,

Renee

I haven't

Brett Benner

which is better. Like for me, it just, it's so beautiful, and I was so bummed that they didn't do a third season. It's phenomenal and incredible acting and it's so beautiful. The Apple TV series is also great for anybody who hasn't read the book, but it's just beautiful and really well done. But this is It says "Once comfortably middle class in Korea, John and Helen Koh and their three children, Bo, D.H., and Mido, find their lives upended first by a shocking betrayal by John's oldest friend, then by the 1997 Asian financial crisis. Desperately striving to regain their footing, they leave Seoul for Sydney and eventually settle in Southern California, where new vistas of opportunity open up for the children as their parents, strangers in a strange land, must adjust to a new life in which their experience and education mean little, and they set their sights on whatever it takes to provide for their children's futures." So it goes literally over generations. It sounds so good. It's a honker coming in at almost 630 pages. I think this will be probably one of the big books going into the fall, and I'm particularly i'm so excited for it. So it's saying right now that it's supposed to come out September 29th. So yeah, that, that is American Hagwon by Min Jin Lee

Renee

Ooh, okay. All right. I will finish up with a nonfiction, and this one is Tell Me About Joy: A True Story of Love, Regret, and Second Chances by Kara Kavensky, and it comes out September 8th. And this is a story... So Kara is a journalist, and apparently she's stuck in a trembling- she's stuck in a crumbling marriage, quietly losing hope. And then she's assigned to write a human interest story on World War II veterans, and she meets Bob, who is a sharp, charming nonagenarian who shares his greatest regret, that he missed out on marrying the love of his life, a woman named Joy. It's been over 60 years, Joy is somewhere out there, and Bob has one last wish: to find her before it's too late. So what begins as a routine assignment for Kara turns into a story that changes everything, and what unfolds is a moving, unforgettable journey through memory, healing, and the enduring power of love. I love everything about

Brett Benner

Oh my God, that sounds

Renee

I c- yeah, I cannot wait to read this one. It's Tell Me About Joy: A True Story of Love, Regret, and Second Chances by Kara Kavensky, and it comes out September 8th

Brett Benner

That sounds really good My other one's out September 1st. This is also a honker at about 500 pages. I don't know why all the big books

Renee

The fall is for long books

Brett Benner

Yeah, exactly. All right. This is called Understory by Chloe Benjamin. And the synopsis is, "At the edge of the world, biologist Laurel Salter is hiding from everything she's ever known. For 10 hours a day, six days a week, she works as a dishwasher at McMurdo Station, an isolated research base in Antarctica. She tells no one that before she arrived, she was a renowned young scientist with a promising career and a family. But even in this remote outpost, Laurel can't escape her past. When a strange light known as the Ark appears across the ice and draws a group of physicists to McMurdo, her former husband, Eli, won't be far behind. Laurel is captivated by the Ark, its surreal glow, the way it seems almost alive. And although, and though Eli is reluctant to test her wildest theory, Laurel is convinced that the Ark leads down a rabbit hole and into a world they can barely imagine. Can she persuade him to risk everything to fix the burden that hangs between them, to turn back the clock and live their story a second time? A breathless page-turner and a love letter to our planet, Understory grapples with the great questions of our time. Human hubris, the precarity of the natural world, and the mysterious web of consciousness that binds us. A modern epic of science and soul, of bravery and redemption. It offers a vision of the future that demands we reckon with what we owe to one another and to the Earth itself." I think it sound I just got a chill.

Renee

Oh,

Brett Benner

I think it

Renee

know. I

Brett Benner

so good, and it's I've heard some buzzy stuff about this already. I've seen some Bookstagrammers saying they've read it and it's just breathtaking. So I did not read

Renee

The

Brett Benner

Yeah, I didn't, and

Renee

I loved it.

Brett Benner

Oh, you did?

Renee

loved it. Oh, yeah. As soon as I saw that she had a new one coming out, I w- I was requested it immediately because I loved The Immortalists. It was so good.

Brett Benner

Okay, great. A- all right. So this is Understory, and it comes out September 1st.

Renee

Ooh. This was fun

Brett Benner

this was really fun, and actually we were good. We were tight. We were not long yes.

Renee

We're on point.

Brett Benner

We spent more time trying to get online than we were online.

Renee

I know. I told you we could do it.

Brett Benner

Yes. These are great choices. I hope there's somebody, something for everybody in here that, that piques your interest. As always, Renee, it is so awesome having you here and getting your thoughts and your recommendations. They're always so fantastic. So thank you for being here

Renee

Yeah, thanks for having me. You've added to my TBR, and I am also excited for next quarter to see where we land

Brett Benner

Completely. So have a great rest of your week, and to all our listeners, have a great rest of your week, wherever you are in your week. And we'll talk soon

Renee

Thanks. Bye

Brett Benner

As always, thank you, Renée. Can't wait to have you back soon. Thank you all for listening, and if you've enjoyed this episode or other episodes that you've heard of Behind The Stack, please consider liking and subscribing so that you never miss an episode. Also, what would be really helpful to me is if you could go onto your podcast platform of choice and give the show five stars, and if you have the time, write a review. All those things are really helpful to get the podcast in front of everyone that can hear it or see it, so I can continue to bring you conversations like this one with Renée today. I will be back next week with debut author Roshan Sethi for his book, The Simp, so look out for that. And in the meantime, you can always find me on Instagram, YouTube, and Substack at Brett's Book Stack Have a great week everybody, and as always, thanks for listening