Behind the Stack with Tim Ehrenberg of Tim Talks Books

Brett sits down with Tim Ehrenberg of @Timtalksbooks who is also the  cohost of the popular book podcast, Books, Beach & Beyond with Elin Hilderbrand, and the President of the Nantucket Book Foundation which produces the Nantucket Book Festival. They discuss his own bookish origin story, his podcast and friendship with Elin as well as the hugely acclaimed book festival. Tim then shares six summer books and one from fall to add to your TBR.

Tim's website: www.timtalksbooks.com

Tim's instagram: 

https://www.instagram.com/timtalksbooks/

The Nantucket Book Festival:

https://www.nantucketbookfestival.org/

Books, Beach & Beyond podcast:

https://www.booksbeachandbeyond.com/

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Watch Behind the Stack on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@brettsbookstack

Bookshop.org page:
https://www.bookshop.org/shop/brettsbookstack

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https://www.instagram.com/bretts.book.stack

Behind the Stack email:
brettsbookstack@gmail.com

Transcript

Brett Benner 0:04

Hey everybody, it's Bret, and I am so happy today to be sitting down with Tim Ehrenberg, who I've always been a fan of his. He has such great taste in books. So I just wanna talk a little bit about Tim, and h- I'm so happy he's here today to share some of his books that he's looking forward to for the summer, since we are almost at summer. But Tim is the creator of Tim Talk Books. He's president of the Nantucket Book Foundation, which presents the annual Nantucket Book Festival, and the marketing events and e-commerce director for Nantucket Book Partners, Nantucket's island's two independent bookstores, Mitchell's Book Corner and Nantucket Bookworks. He's the co-host of the hit literary podcast, Book, Speech Beyond, with bestselling author Ellen Hildebrand, produced by EDEN Magazine, which is gonna be entering its fourth season this summer. Thank you so much for being here. I am, I'm thrilled we get to talk.

Tim Ehrenberg 0:59

Oh, Bret, thank you so much for reaching out and having me. I love you as an interviewer. I've had the pleasure of listening to many of your podcast, episodes, most recently with Pa- Mina Staget, The, um, Good People, which I, I loved that book and I loved that in- Oh,

Brett Benner 1:13

God, isn't it great?

Tim Ehrenberg 1:14

It's so great. You're such a sincere and genuine human in your interviews, but also just on Instagram. You're just so supportive of everyone, so thank you so much for, for having me.

Brett Benner 1:23

You're very sweet. Okay, so Tim, your origin story, you were born in Wisconsin, yes?

Tim Ehrenberg 1:28

Born in Wisconsin, yep.

Brett Benner 1:30

Now, are you an only child?

Tim Ehrenberg 1:31

No, I had an older sister, but she passed away of cancer, it's odd when you grow up your entire life as a sibling and then now in a way I am an only child, but I'm not the product- Yeah of an only child. It's a really, it's a, it's a big traumatic switch in, in, in life for sure.

Brett Benner 1:47

Wow. Yeah, I can imagine. Now, you were originally a performer, yes?

Tim Ehrenberg 1:52

Mm-hmm. Yes. My whole life I was always in plays and theater in high school, and then I went to the University of Wisconsin-Madison, and I joined the group called the Wisconsin Singers, and I was in that all four years. So my college experience was quite crazy because I would get on a bus to tour around the Midwest with that group all weekend. So we would leave most Friday mornings, and we would g- return on Sunday, Sunday evenings, and that was, that was a huge chunk of my college experience, but I would have never traded it. I met the best friends in the world, and I got to do what I loved, which is song and dance.

Brett Benner 2:23

Wow. Did you... Then did you move to New York after?

Tim Ehrenberg 2:25

I did a bunch of different contracts all over. I think most notably I went to Iraq in 2010 for a USO tour. And that was the most unbelievable experience. But then my back started hurting and I was like,"I'm gonna have to hang up my dancing shoes." That's what I love about kinda what I do now, is I get to be a little bit on, on stage in just a different way. Yeah. And then talk about my other passion, which is obviously books, and why we're here today. So it, it's a great blending of both, both things I love.

Brett Benner 2:53

Were you always a reader?

Tim Ehrenberg 2:54

Yes. I always say this tagline, that I could... I was a huge reader before I could even read. I would get those books that I still remember, Go, Dog. Go! or Dr. Seuss' ABCs, and I just, I memorized it very easily. And so I would just read it to myself even though I wasn't really understanding the words. But I knew just because I- Bring that to my parents. And I always carried a book around with me. My mom alwa- and dad always say that from the very beginning, I just always had one in my hands. And still to this day, you will never not see me with a book very, very, very close by because there always could be a minute that I could sneak in a couple of pages to read it.

Brett Benner 3:33

Were you a library goer?

Tim Ehrenberg 3:34

You know, I wasn't. I love libraries, and I'm so supportive of them, but my mom was always a very, a bookstore person. My libraries were the bookstores, and I always remember I would go in and I, I mean, I still also am like that to this day. I could just spend hours and hours. And when I, my mom was like,"Okay, it's time to go," I would hide between the bookshelves. I just was not quite ready to go. And even from a young age, I'd go in and I'd s- I'd go around every aisle and every shelf, and I would pick out and I'd have a stack like this big, and then I'd go sit in a chair, and I would just start being like,"Which stories am I gonna take home with me today to enjoy?" And I still do that. I mean, my husband knows,"Okay, I'm gonna drop you off. I'm gonna go do about 90 other things, and I'll return," and he'll still be in that chair deciding between which three to five books he's gonna take home that day.

Brett Benner 4:23

I love that so much. I feel like it's also i- in, in, in, in a weird way, she was planting seeds for you of what would later become your life. Do you know what I mean?

Tim Ehrenberg 4:32

Yeah. Yes, exactly.

Brett Benner 4:33

So interesting. Then when did you end up in Nantucket?

Tim Ehrenberg 4:37

So my husband and I were engaged in 2011, and if you can believe this, back then it was not legal to get married- Right for, for, for us in every state. So Massachusetts was one, and he, his aunt and uncle have a, um, had a house on Nantucket. Now, I had never heard of Nantucket Which is probably not true because I watched Wings and I loved Jaws. And like I did know of it, but I didn't really, when he said it, I couldn't connect those dots. But then he said,"What about Nantucket?" And I started looking up pictures. Once I realized that the airport kind of matched the house that we were gonna be stay- and that everything matched so well, I was like,"You know what? I can just book everything. I think this is gonna be, outstanding." And so to make a long story short, then we came the month before our wedding just to make sure plans were good. This was in 2012. And then we fell so in love with it. That month we lived in a little cottage downtown. And Nantucket, if, if you haven't, I know you have been, but if any listeners haven't been, is the most charming place in the entire world, in my opinion. I still, now I've lived here since 2013, still walk down the streets and say,"I am so lucky that I get to walk down these streets." And we just, we fell so in love with it that after the wedding we were like,"Should we try to move there?" And these are, it, we're two Wisconsin boys. We're used to corn fields, not oceans. And we said,"Let's just give it a try," because the community here is so supportive. If you're gonna choose to live 30 miles out to sea- Yeah you are surrounded with people that are, you know, that you're gonna wanna be surrounded by. And so we t- we moved here in 2013 right around the spring, right around now, and then we were like,"You know what? This is, this is, this is our place And so that- So you- Yeah

Brett Benner 6:21

so going, you've, you knew very little people.

Tim Ehrenberg 6:22

The only people we knew were our wedding vendors, which l- even though- Wow I'm kind of a bridezilla, they love it. I feel like they found- some charm in me, that they- still loved me and welcomed me with open arms. But it was definitely one of those th- you know, like our photographer is still one of our very good friends. So many people that we met. And being there that month, like I, I met the people that now I work really closely with. I mean, I met Ellen. Ellen is one of the first people I met at the Cisco Brewery. Just standing outside, I met her ex-husband, Chip, and then I was introduced to Ellen. And little did we know that we'd be working so closely together. Sure. And yeah, and it's just one of those,, kinda like you said, like the little, little points in the map that lead to everything else, is so fascinating to me about people's lives.

Brett Benner 7:04

When you first arrived there, were you already doing a job, or you had something that was r- you could do? Or was it s- a question of like,"Oh, I'll get into something, I'll find something"?

Tim Ehrenberg 7:12

So I took a year off to plan, from performing,'cause I wouldn't have been able to get out of any performing contracts with the wedding.

Brett Benner 7:18

Yeah.

Tim Ehrenberg 7:18

And so no, after our wedding, I was a little bit at a loss, which I think maybe some people can under- I mean, I had poured so much energy into planning it, and- Sure I was like,"What am I gonna..." And then I didn't have a job, and I was definitely in a career, transition of like,"What am I gonna do now?" And I moved to Nantucket, and I was hired actually to do the marketing for a boutique, called Millie and Grace. Those, that boutique owner and her family are still some of our greatest friends today. Nantucket was a little slow on the uptake of social media. So, so it's 2013, and not everyone had an Instagram. They're a little slower on the, the online e-commerce type of thing. So I was there right at the nick of time, I think, to kind of help that. And so then I started a marketing business called Brand New Nantucket, and I had multiple clients all over, different avenues of business. So I had a wine store, I had like a home decor store. And then, one of the clients were the two bookstores, uh, Mitchell's and Bookworks. Wow. And so I just did that part-time as part of my business, and then, you know, the rest is history, and kind of just went there. And now I work full-time for the, for the bookstores and, and the book festival.

Brett Benner 8:23

That's a huge flyer. But how amazing. And what a time of discovery. And also just for the two of you as a couple to be doing this all together. I love that so much.

Tim Ehrenberg 8:34

And it was the start of our 30s. I mean, so our- we, we were married when I was 30, and that decade has just flown by. And it's such an important, it's such an important decade, your 30s. Like, I mean, people think you're an adult right after you graduate college. I was not an adult at all. No. I think I'm just starting in my 40s to feel like, okay, I've like discovered myself a little bit more through my 30s. And to do that here on Nantucket has just been a, a real, a real joy.

Brett Benner 9:01

Tim, 40s are the new 30s, just so you know. And 50s are the new 40s. I'm just like- 100- laying it out there

Tim Ehrenberg 9:06

100%.

Brett Benner 9:07

But I do feel that because I look at my dad and at his age, m- I'm 58, and I look at my dad at 58, it was a very different 58. You know what I mean? And,, I look at my relationship with my kids and my relationship... Of course, parenting has changed so much, too, but it's a very different thing now. Okay, so then when did you and Elin,'cause, uh, this is my first question for you. When did you guys really first start to click and you're like,"Oh my God, you're like the one for me. You're like my bestie"?

Tim Ehrenberg 9:33

So like I said, w- she was one of the first people we met on our wedding. It was like two weeks before our wedding in 2012. She signed our, that book of hers that year was Summerland. We s- I still have that signature that she wishes us good luck on our wedding. Probably never thought she'd see me again. I never thought I'd see her again. Yeah. I mean, I'd definitely see her around Nantucket when we moved here. Said hi. Obviously, we both loved books, and then when I was working part-time for the bookstores was, as my client, through the business, we had some interactions. But it wasn't until COVID that in 2020, when that happened, which sometimes I look back and I'm like,"Did that happen? Or was that- Oh, yeah like a novel I read and I was just like- in, a character in that?" And when I realized that, and I call this, this is what must not be named, Amazon, because I'm such a supporter of indie bookstores. When they said that books weren't essential items, no one could get books, and there we all were, stranded at our homes, couldn't leave. And w- I really, with the help of the team at Mitchells and BookWorks, we're like,"We need to get people the books." And one of the books that was re- everyone really wanted was Elin's new summer read because everyone wanted to be able to enjoy some escapism during that time. Sure. And so I was like,"How are we going to do this 30 miles out to sea and get everyone a signed autographed copy?" It was 28, that year, her book was 28 Summers. And so Elin and I said,"We're going to do this. We're going to offer this special edition that she'll sign and personalize, and we'll add a little gift to it." And so because we decided to do that, we spent a lot of time together. And then since then- Mm that was funny, we have done that, let's see how many times, maybe eight to nine,'cause she had the blue book and... So we have spent a lot of time in the Mitchell's Book Corner basement of her signing thousands and thousands and thousands. I mean, it, it is one of the biggest accomplishments and I'm so proud of that we are able to offer. What people don't understand is in this day of shipping and everything, that for Swan Song, we did 10,000 pre-orders of that. Oh my God. Small basement Downstairs at Mitchell's. Having to have eight trucks from USPS show up in the morning to ship them all out, the logistics of it was a nightmare. And then it's just, it's organizing that to make sure that when she signs,"To Brett, love Ellen," that that's going to you- Right in California.

Brett Benner 11:51

Yeah. Or

Tim Ehrenberg 11:52

Canada, or, I mean, Australia. I mean, it's in- it's insane. So again, long story short, we, we've spent so much time together that all we did was talk about what we love to read. I mean, hours and hours and hours. But we also, like Nantucket Living, we're also in the same social circle, so we had a lot to, to bond about. But our biggest bond, obviously, is we always asked each other what we were reading, and that just kind of, she said,"When I retire, let's start a podcast." But then I said with The Perfect Couple coming out that year, I was like,"We, you know, your name is everywhere. We need to get this started now." And so we started it, and yeah, we're entering our fourth season. And it's just also been such a, such a joy to be able to connect. I mean, I know you probably feel the same way. It's so much fun to connect with writers. Oh, my God. And I love our setup. I love that Ellen's a writer, and to just be in that room to watch two writers talk about craft. And I love talking about, like, I love asking questions like,"If you could take three of your characters that you've created to dinner, like, who would you take, and what, and what would you talk about?" Like, that fascinates me. That's not necessarily something that Ellen would come up with. So we're coming at it from so, um, such different places that I feel like- Yeah it's such a, such a great balance.

Brett Benner 12:56

Describe your relationship with her in three words.

Tim Ehrenberg 12:59

Loyal, humor, and honesty, I would say.

Brett Benner 13:06

That's great.

Tim Ehrenberg 13:08

We're very no-nonsense with each other, and, like, I really appreciate that out of her. There's no... I always know where I st- I mean, and it's always a good place, but we always know where we stand with each other, and I think that's a really, for a professional relationship and a personal one, it's really good to, to have. She's very appreciative of, I think of what I have helped her with, not that she necessarily needed- Yeah but, and I'm so appreciative to her. And so I think that that is, there's just a lot of mutual respect, which I always appreciate.

Brett Benner 13:34

That's great. Okay, so the book festival, this year it's June 11th through the 14th, yes? So what year is this for the book festival?

Tim Ehrenberg 13:40

It is the 15th annual. Yeah.

Brett Benner 13:43

Wow. 15-year. Like, talk about the growth, and it's such a thing now. I mean, you do, you were saying in the beginning, you have an incredible lineup, and you've had an incredible lineup. Like, every year you're getting amazing authors, and it's again, it's a testament to you and the festival that you're bringing not only the authors out, but you're getting all these readers to come to the island. And it's so great for commerce for the island as a whole. Talk about it just for a second, and talk... I'd love to also you, if you wanna pitch some of the authors that are coming, all of that. And I, I will link obviously the festival's information below for people.

Tim Ehrenberg 14:15

So, I mean, when you pitch Nantucket as a, as a destination, I think you get a lot of authors that are like,"Oh, I'd, I'd like to go to Nantucket." And, Yes. I think another thing that we have done so well, and well, the co-founders has done from the very beginning, and then we have continued, is it's a very intimate festival. You know, you sometimes go to that... I just saw that, BookCon event.

Brett Benner 14:35

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It- Oh my God. Insane

Tim Ehrenberg 14:37

enormous. Insane.

Brett Benner 14:39

The- And I'm

Tim Ehrenberg 14:40

sure those authors, I'm sure were s- nothing against BookCon, I'm su- treated with such respect. But what we really do is try to create an intimate atmosphere and, and really host them, and make them feel like we wanted you here to talk about your book, to give you like their own spotlight. Like most of our events, well, all of our events are free and open to everyone, which is another just rare thing here on Nantucket for something to be, to be free. But then e- But each author really gets their own time, and like each event isn't... And I love panels. I think you can discover so many great themes when you connect three writers together and they're talking about their books together. But I also just like a 45-minute conversation between someone and their book to just dive- Yeah really in depth into just that one story or that writer's life, and that's what we really try to do with the festival. So yes, this, last year, I never thought we could top it. We had Ocean Vuong and Wally Lamb, and Wa- like Wally's been one of my favorite novelists for years. But somehow I think maybe we did. I, I'm not gonna ever say we topped it, but I think it, I'm just so excited. So we have the great Ann Patchett, which I know you love Ann Patchett as well. Oh my God. Oh my God. Who doesn't love Ann Patchett? You say her name, and I think everyone just smiles. Um,

Brett Benner 15:57

and- And

Tim Ehrenberg 15:57

writer.

Brett Benner 15:58

It's, it's so funny. Like, it's just universal

Tim Ehrenberg 16:00

And I have been begging, I guess maybe isn't that strong of a word for her to, to, to make it. And she and I have great rapport, and she's just like, you know, it's... With the bookstore and everything, it's hard. She's busy to travel. Yeah. And somehow out of, and I'll get to this'cause obviously Ann Patchett's new book is one of my recommendations that I'm gonna share with you later. But the way it,, fell that her book comes out June 2nd, which is right when she'll be on her tour, was the god of books was looking down on me, I think, to say that it worked out, and she'll be there. We also have the great Jenna Bush Hager, who I just- Mm been a little bit of my book whisper ever since she started Read with Jenna, and I just love her. Talk about how I said you are so genuine and sincere. I feel like all of her recommendations, you can just genuinely tell that she just loved that book, and she wants to talk about it, and I think you can just, she just exudes that. She's coming-

Brett Benner 16:52

I gotta say, she's, she's my favorite. Sorry to interrupt. She's my favorite of all of those book clubs. I just feel like she has the most diverse, the most interesting choices always. I just think they're

Tim Ehrenberg 17:02

great. I agree. And I, I mean, m- nine times out, out of 10, it'll be one of my recommendations as well. She is coming to actually present her new Thousand Voices imprint, so she started that new imprint that started with Conform. And now, I don't know if anyone's been watching, but they seem to drop a new one every couple weeks. And Into the Blue, the, most recent, recent book club now, and then is one of her imprint in, by Emma Brody. It's such a fantastic read. And so she's going to be presenting, I'm gonna be in conversation with Jenna for about a half an hour, and then she'll bring on her authors, um, Juliette Faithfull, Shannon Garvey, and Emma Brody for a little conversation just about Thousand Voices. Oh, that's

Brett Benner 17:39

awesome.

Tim Ehrenberg 17:40

Who else? Ruta Sepetys, Sepetys, I believe you pronounce her name. Mm-hmm. She, is a young adult writer, but she's always been someone that I've read, and I just feel like it's such a disservice to say she's a young adult because they're such good books. But she technically has her first adult debut coming out in June called The Fortune of Sands, and it's like 1920s meets Prohibition, Great Gatsby-esque, and it's fantastic. Wow. We have Tayari Jones, who wrote Kin, one of my top books of the year so far. I loved American Marriage. We've been waiting a while for a new one from her, and I just, it is not... I mean, Vernice and Annie are the two leading ladies in that book, I think will stick with me forever. Richard Russo, which I must have been living under a rock. I've never read a Richard Russo book. But I picked up one when Oprah announced it as her Bridge of Sighs last fall. I pick that up and I go,"Where have I been?" He's very... It reminds me a little bit of Wally Lamb, a little bit Elizabeth Strout. He somehow manages to make a trip to the supermarket interesting in a book. Yeah. And he really, like, I'm from a small town, and he really just nails that small town, nuance. And I've now read Empire Falls, which is celebrating its 25th anniversary, this year, and Bridge of Sighs, and Straight Man, and then I started that trilogy, and he's great. He's great, so I'm really excited about him. So it is... I mean, I could keep going. There are 32 authors, and it's going to be... It's a jam-packed schedule. I am concerned about venue sizes because we were over capacity a, a, on a bunch of events last year, and I'm so, I'm a little concerned about that, but we're gonna have to do what we gotta do'cause we're on Nantucket, and there's not, you know, big stadiums for the amount of people that might wanna see these writers.

Brett Benner 19:22

You're gonna be starting, satellite rooms with a feed.

Tim Ehrenberg 19:26

Exactly.

Brett Benner 19:27

Okay, so before we get into some of your picks, I'm just so curious, are you... Do you do audiobooks as well or do you strictly just read the book?

Tim Ehrenberg 19:35

So I'm- I love audiobooks. I think it's great when people do it. I, myself, just personally can't. I've tried a couple of times. My biggest successes have been nonfiction when the- Mm-hmm actual, like Michelle Obama's. Yeah. I listen to her talk about it. Fiction, I just can't do. I, I can't follow it. I'm so old school. I'm so I need to hold a book in my hands type of per- I can't do an e-book either. Again, not that I, feel like there's anything wrong with it. It's just me personally. My experience with a book is so h- in my hand reading it, which is it, it does get... When I contact the publishers or authors and I say,"I need this book right now, but you need to, like, print it and or I need to get it and bind it so that I can read it that way." Like Jodi Picoult and I have been going back. Hollow Bones comes out this September and I wanna read that book so badly and it's available on e-book but I just won't ruin that experi- not ruin it, but for me just have that experience any other way than holding a physical copy.

Brett Benner 20:35

I know. I don't disagree with you on the e-book thing. Like I can listen. I like a, I like an audiobook, but I started the same way on audiobooks. Like I only did nonfiction originally and then I started to... Some thrillers worked for me on audiobooks and, and so I can now do it pretty well. I also like a... if it's, if it's set somewhere else like Ireland or somewhere, then I love a narrator because it's that accent. Oh, yeah. But there's something about the e-books and every time a publisher will say,"Can we send you a, you know, a NetGalley link?" And I'm like,"No," because- Yeah. I for- I just forget it's there. Like I l- you know, I just like, it's just a different thing where I like the convenience of being able to be in bed. It... That's it. But other than that, I really like to have the book in my hand and I really like that feeling and that, you know, all of it. Just to be able to put the bookmark in or put a tab on or something completely.

Tim Ehrenberg 21:21

Although I will say last night I had to shut the light. It was, I was reading very late the book that I was reading and my husband kind of like,"Shut the light off. It's time for you to shut the light off." So I shut the light off but I wasn't ready to quit reading, so then I went on my phone and did, I was reading some of Ann Patchett's nonfiction just on my phone. And I- Yeah I was like,"Oh, this is like a different, it's a segue into something different," and I... It was something that I was like not necessarily not enjoying but I just, I... Any novel that I'm really looking forward to I just couldn't read any other way than having it in my hands.

Brett Benner 21:55

Yeah. I'm also, even with the library sometimes'cause people are like,"I go to the library," and I'm just the person who, and like I guess whatever but I will always order the book. And part of it I guess it's for the author but also like so many people, you know, buying books is such a different thing than reading the book. It's like two different things are collecting the books. Okay, so to that end I'm so excited to see, uh, I forgot. How many did we say you're gonna give us today?

Tim Ehrenberg 22:20

I mean, you asked for five, but unfortunately I might have to squeeze in a couple more. There's just so many books. That's fine. That's fine. Do it. This is one of the most epic book years, I think, for me. There's so many favorite authors back with books. So I will... I'll get started, and you won't be shocked'cause I already brought it up, but Whistler by Ann Patchett. Yeah. It's about a woman and her husband are at the Metropolitan Museum, and they run into someone from her past when she was nine, and I won't give any away who that is,'cause you're kind of waiting to see who it is in the beginning. There's so many themes in here I loved. I mean, I love when Ann looks back at childhood and kind of like, kind of what we were talking about earlier, about how, like, everything kind of is a little points on the map to how we got here today. Mm. And so this is another dual timeline of we have the main character looking at herself in the present, and then kind of looking back. It's about memory, it's about family, it's about the choices we made to get us where we are today. So many profound sentences that I always love about Ann. I mean, I tried to pinpoint, even for this interview, that I was like,"Why do I love Ann Patchett's books so much?" And I think there's an old-fashioned sense of someone that's sitting you down to tell you a story. Like, I feel like- Oh, yeah when I read an Ann Patchett book, I think, I feel that she's like,"Hey Tim, come over here. I have to tell you about this, about Whistler." And, and I've always felt that about all of her books. So I cannot wait, and I can't wait to talk to her for Book Festival all about her writings, but, uh, most notably Whistler, since it'll be brand new on shelves and no one would've read it yet when she's over there. Yeah.

Brett Benner 23:48

Amazing.

Tim Ehrenberg 23:49

The next one, when I heard about the concept for this book, this comes out at the end of May, it's called The Foursome by Christina Baker Kline. It's historical fiction, and I think when historical fiction is done right, it's just some of my favorite, my favorite books. This is about, do you know that famous picture of the conjoined twins from Siam in 1843? Yeah, of course. I feel like

Brett Benner 24:08

we've all- Oh my God. Yes, yes.

Tim Ehrenberg 24:10

Like, we all know that picture. But I bet you don't know their names. I, I wouldn't have known their names. I would have none, and I wouldn't have known their story. Well, this is their story. Eng and Chang Bunker married two sisters from a prominent Southern family named Sarah and A- Adelaide. And they lived all together in the same bedroom, conjoined twins and two sisters. The most fascinating detail about this is that the author is a distant relative of Sarah and Adelaide. So this is truly her story to tell. In the first page of it, she says,"Whose story is this to tell? Maybe the story doesn't belong to anyone. Maybe it's a question of who has the nerve and the need to tell it." And for years, Christina, she wrote Orphan Train, and for years she's battled like,"I think I need to tell this story." And finally someone from her life said,"If you don't tell it, this is a fascinating story, someone's gonna tell it." But it's, it's just, it's an incredible, incredible historical fiction about this, this relationship between four people that your questions just go on and on and on. Immediately. How, like so many. And you know, when looking back and at that time, you know, conformity was where it's at. You didn't wanna look like you were at all... I mean, these, these brothers were looked at with such speculation in the United States, and it was just, it's just incredible. And I think there are so many other quotes that you're just really thinking about, like how people lived back then, but then when you add in this element, it's fascinating. I, I mean- Wow this is gonna be everywhere and people are gonna just be wanting to ask her all the questions. But it was in- it, it's inspired by actual events and there's so many... I don't wanna give anything away,'cause there's a lot of stuff in that story that, um, she brings out in the book. So have you heard about this one?

Brett Benner 25:47

You know, I, I, I did and I, and I've been, I haven't read it yet, and the publicist reached out to me and I, so I've seen all the information. And, and like watching you just talk about it now, it's like, oh my God. But of course immediately the first thing,'cause y- I know that I've always known that picture, right? It was like Ripley's Believe It or Not, and it was, Mm-hmm as a child. But the questions that immediately begin to go through your head from the outset, like the first just o- the obvious being like how big is the bed for the four of them? Yeah. I mean, just the logistics of sl- not even anything but just sleep. Um- Yeah and it's just the intimacy between these four people. So I, I'm s- like hearing you talk about it now, oh my God, I'm so in

Tim Ehrenberg 26:26

She does a really great job with it. It's, it's so thought-provoking in many ways. Up next is The Children by Melissa Albert. I love lately there are so many books about books, and I also love when a fictional writer creates a world that introduces something iconic in her world that isn't iconic in ours. So take, for example, like, Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reid. Mm. There's that scene in that book that that actress, Evelyn, is, like, getting out of the, I think stepping out of a lake, and it seems so iconic. It seems like something like the Mari- Marilyn Monroe picture that we know, but it isn't. It's just from her imagination, and you almost wanna Google that picture. So this is about, two estranged siblings whose mother was a legendary author of a children's fantasy series called The Ninth City. So kinda think Narnia. And it's a dual timeline looking back on their childhood when their mother was getting inspiration from their childhood for this fantasy series, and then them, everyone now who's older, so, like, when we're older looking back at Narnia, and thinking,"Wow, those stories are a little bit darker," and they're a little bit... There's a- Mm. There's a different nuance to them that you're, you're seeing. I love, I just love books about books. And I feel like in the past there really wasn't that many, because I think people were like,"Maybe this is too inside baseball. Maybe no one cares." Right. I think, like us as readers, I think real- I mean, now you see it everywhere, like The Ending Rights Itself by V.E. Schwab that just came out. You know, and it's all about publishing and everything, and I love that because that's obviously my world and I, I really enjoy reading about it. So this one is just, it's, it, it's, it's dark. It's fantasy for people that maybe don't necessarily think they would like fantasy, and it's just, it's, it's, it's really good. Okay. Villa Coco by Andrew Sean Greer. He wrote Less. Did you love Less?

Brett Benner 28:14

I did not, to be perfectly honest with you. You didn't? I'm, I'm, I'm one of the few people who did not. Okay. And, um, and I, I, I, I don't know why. I think it was the time, but- Okay I appreciated his writing, but for whatever reason- Yeah I just didn't. But I'm very excited about this, and I think it's one of the best covers of the year so far.

Tim Ehrenberg 28:32

Oh, agreed. And I think in the summer everyone, even if you can't get away for a vacation for whatever reason, a book is a cheaper option to go on a vacation, and this is going to the Italian countryside. Our young man, leading man, is, a archivist that goes to the Italian countryside and moves in with a baronessa named Coco, and she's an eccen- eccentric 92-year-old woman, so their relationship is great. There's a juicy... He has an affair with a married man. There's a lot going on in here, but it's just really fun. And I've never been to Italy. I'm saving that trip for when I can finally get away in, like, the fall, so it was really fun to experience it through these pages. Okay. Jenny Jackson's The Shampoo Effect. Everyone on Nantucket, I mean, everyone in the summer is looking for a beach read, and so I always usually would recommend my bestie or co-host's Ellen's books. But if you've read all of Ellen's books and you're looking for something kind of similar with that multiple perspectives and juicy drama, I would recommend Jenny's The Shampoo Effect. She wrote Pineapple Street all those years ago. What I love about this is, I mean, I love the title and the concept. So The Shampoo Effect is basically like, do you have those relationships that there are maybe simmering tensions that just build and build and build over the years? I always give the story of I call The Shampoo Effect deeper than the slushie,'cause at my bachelor party in 2010, I poured a slushie over my friend Gretchen, and we got in a big fight, and we were up until like 4:00, and all the friends were in bed, and we were, like, talking about things. And what we discovered is that it wasn't about the slushie on that day. It was deeper than the slushie. It was years of slushie that we, like, needed to un- And that's what The Shampoo Effect is. That's what's in, in this novel. It's there's so many things going on. I love social interaction fiction because I consider myself a pretty emotionally intelligent person, and I love watching other people interact and be like,"Ooh, that did... Like, that joke didn't land for that person," and that'll be ta- In, in a novel, you can really see that, and Jenny does it so well here in The Shampoo Effect. Ben, for some nonfiction readers, Ben Mezrich's Checkmate. Now, I have never played chess in my life. I have no interest in it. But somehow I think a really good, like, investigative journalist like Ben can make you, like, be in that room. This is about a s- chess scandal that happened in 2022. It was probably the most notable scandal in the chess world where someone wins and someone was like,"You cheated," and there was all this... He just researches it so much. It makes chess, which is the least, I guess, thrilling game you would think, like you wouldn't really think of it- Very unsexy suspenseful, and somehow he makes this book so suspenseful. And, um, I don't know. It's, if you like nonfiction and you just, like, wanna learn some-something that you wouldn't think you would have any interest in, I really recommend it'cause it's, it's, it's a good one.

Brett Benner 31:18

Okay, great.

Tim Ehrenberg 31:19

So those are all June picks, and I know you said just like summer, but I have to, because I just finished this book, I have to talk about it. It's called Sophie Standing There by Meg Mason.

Brett Benner 31:29

I'm dying. I'm dying. I'm dying. I'm dying.

Tim Ehrenberg 31:32

Whoa, Brett. It is, it is, it is about a woman who works at book festivals. So obviously right now it's really hitting home because I'm getting ready for a book festival. But what it's about is that connection that a reader has with a writer, and she has this writer that she loves so much. She has a relationship with them, and I think that that, I mean, you and I can talk about that all the time, that you read a book and you somehow feel like I, I would be friends with that author, or I get that author. 100%. And that's what she, and the character is doing. There are so many authors that we all know and love also that are peppered in this story, like Ann Patchett's in it and Liz Strout's in it, and it's a fiction book, but these, these real time authors are in this novel, and it's just, it's... Every reader who has ever felt a relationship with an author, even without having met them, is gonna love this book, and it's out in September. Ugh. So you have to, we have to wait a while. But it's, it's beautiful and, I mean, you should definitely give it- I loved her

Brett Benner 32:29

last, I, I loved her first book so much too, and I, oh my God, I think she's such an extraordinary writer. So when I saw this was coming I was like,"Oh my God, I cannot, cannot wait." So

Tim Ehrenberg 32:39

it's- This is the book I was up all last night trying to finish reading, but then I had to turn the light off. So I haven't quite finished it, but it is, it's, it's so good. And I'm already like cast- Ugh I mean, talk, this is what I wanted to talk to you about, is like, are you, when you read books, because you're in casting, when you read, do you constantly cast or is that not something you do when you read?

Brett Benner 33:00

I don't, I don't necessarily do it when I read and I... This is an interesting thing and I talk about all this with a lot of people, readers and w- not as much writers, but I, I always talk to readers about this, about the idea of when you're reading something, who do you see in this? And sometimes you can get things clarity immediately, right? Like, I remember when I read The Correspondent and I had this conversation with Virginia about it, I m- was immediately like,"Oh, it's, it's Meryl Streep."

Tim Ehrenberg 33:22

Yeah.

Brett Benner 33:22

And, and so it's like the J- the Jane Fonda thing to me is like, I think she's personally too old and it's, it is what it is, and it'll, it's great that it'll get the movie made and, um, I still wish it was Meryl Streep. But generally I have a kind of a blurred vision of the person. I don't necessarily have a thing for it. What I do find when I read things is I say,"Oh, this would be a great..." Like for example, M- Meet the Nivens by Jennifer Newman. I read that and I was like,"This would be a great limited series for a streamer," like in the vein of, uh, uh, Lessons in Chemistry or something like that. Agreed. So I do do that a lot. Do you, I, but why? Do you visualize people as you go through?

Tim Ehrenberg 34:02

Well, with this book I was, because I was like,"Who is that author?" Because they j- she doesn't say the name of the author for a while in the first part of this book, the author that the r- the, the main character loves. And so it kind of created that, that atmosphere of like, ooh, who does this, who does this remind me of? And so then I was thinking when I was, when we were gonna talk, I was like, I wonder if Brett casts a lot because that's his line of work. I honestly, this is crazy, but I think that I cast a character in the book that is the author's picture or the author. Like, if it's one of Elin's books, Elin is usually in the book. Like Jenny Jackson was in Shampoo Effect for me somewhere. She's one of the characters. So I usually cast as one of the characters the author, which I think is interesting just visually in my mind when I'm reading. Even, and I think it obviously has to fit with the age and what they look like, but if it, if it works, it works for me. But yeah, that-

Brett Benner 34:55

But I wonder if part of that is too in part'cause I do, I, I've found that especially doing the interviews, you know, you're always, I'm always mining for what part of their life is inserted into this book, right? What are they pulling from? Even if it's, they'll say,"Well, it's all fiction," you're still, I feel like there's some inspiration or there's something that's setting off something, whether it's the genesis of the book or a particular character. So I find I do that a lot when I'm, when I'm looking at a book before I sit with someone, I'm like, huh, I wonder. Like even, like talking with Douglas Stuart, I, I noticed the trajectory of between the three books of like, are these parts of your lives? Because it's such that they're not related. The books aren't with Jon of Jon about to come out. They're not a trilogy per se, but they could almost be perceived that way because you're starting with a boy, you're going to a teen with Young Mungo, and then you're now with like a, an adult with Jon of Jon. So that's kind of how I'll, I'll see it sometimes. But I do always love to find out from writers when they have something who they have in mind or if they ever visualize somebody, because I think that's- Yeah that's so interesting. And it's also interesting how many of them don't. How many of them say,"I don't really." have someone in mind. I just kind of created this, which I think is, is so cool because I feel like if I wrote something, I would immediately be like,"Well, this person is Paul Mescal," or you know what I mean? I would immediately be kind of- Yeah putting somebody into it.

Tim Ehrenberg 36:17

It surprises me when I do think of... I mean, I really ra- I, it's random when I'm like,"Oh, I wonder who I'd cast in this." I don't think about it all the time. It's never, like, a question that I usually always ask a writer because I'm more of a book person than a TV or movie person. So I just- Mm-hmm I'm not completely always having that line of thought. But then randomly it will come up, and it's always surprising to me why it does and when it does.

Brett Benner 36:40

I also love, though, too, when there's something like Project Hail Mary, and I read Project Hail Mary, Mary a month before the movie came out. But I remember... But, and so seeing that, and I was like,"This is perfect. This is perfect with Ryan. It's, it couldn't be more perfect." So that's kind of cool when that happens. But I think sometimes more often than not, I'm always like,"Wow, that's an interesting choice ultimately for, for what they went for." Yeah. But also more often than not, I'd rather not see an adaption of something anyway. Mm-hmm. I'd rather keep it in my head'cause I don't know about you, but I'm, inevitably I'm always that person that was like,"Yeah, that was fine. The, the book is so much better."

Tim Ehrenberg 37:15

I refuse. There are certain... Like, I refuse to watch the 11/22/63 show. I refuse to watch the I Know This Much Is True show because I actually enjoy rereading books, and I think v- if you watch a movie, you can remember most of the plot points better or y- that's... So if I don't do that, and I just have the book, then, you know, in another five years I could reread that and get a lot more enjoyment out of it as opposed to if I watch the show, and it'll, it'll switch my gears as far-'Cause dang it remember. So I do not... I agree. There are certain ones, but then o- I mean, others that I've really, um, you know, I've really enjoyed.

Brett Benner 37:51

Well, it's also because you're reading so much, right? So there is that thing where I find because you're reading so much that when those ones stand out, they're like, wow, that's an imprint that immediately is seared into your brain, and the rest are like, I find that a lot of we're like,"This is good, this is good, this is good." But the ones that are like, I'm sure Whistler, it's something that's so impactful and sears you so much that you're like,"I remember where I was reading this. I remember-" Mm-hmm"where I was when this particular passage happened," and that's something that a movie can't do. Like, that to me is- Yeah is such an amazing, uh, kind of relationship that gets put between you and the book and the author. It's an incredible thing.

Tim Ehrenberg 38:32

Especially, like- I'm such an optimistic reader in January through March because I have much more time and I'm not stressed out. But when a book can gra- I mean, I'm about as busy as we can possibly be. We're doing a house renovation. We're planning this festival, and the summer is gearing up. And for this book to be reading this and for me to, like, be able to have a moment, you know that, at least for me, it's, like, so profound because otherwise I just wouldn't- Yeah be able to focus on it. I mean, I think it's- Yeah because of what you just said, it, it's that conversation that you are having with,, I, I've never met Meg. I've never, I'd never even spoken to her. I didn't read Sorrow and Bliss, so I, this is my first, interaction with a Meg book, and now I feel exactly like in this book that it's like, oh my gosh, I, I could have such great conversation with Meg. It would be such a, it's such a relationship, and I think that's so weird to say because every reader will have a different one, and that's, um- That's

Brett Benner 39:23

right.

Tim Ehrenberg 39:24

Yeah.

Brett Benner 39:25

And that's, that's what's so amazing about reading is it is so individual, and yet it's also so, it, it's so intimate and so, uh, you know, uh, that's why, like, hence the name of our bookstore, Books Are Magic. I really think they are. Yeah. And I, and I... And so even when people were like,"I'm not really a reader," my response would always that is,"Well, you just haven't had the book that did something to you." That's all it is, because I do think it's out there, and I do believe, uh, it, there's a connection that happens with someone in a book, and they're like,"Okay, this is what it is." And even if you don't read another thing in your life, there could be this one thing that just makes you look at something differently or makes you f- feel seen. Yeah. And I think that's such an incredible thing.

Tim Ehrenberg 40:08

Same.

Brett Benner 40:10

Well, Tim, this was a treat, and, what an incredible group of books. So many of those are on my list, and they should be on all of your lists now too'cause I think you're gonna hear about so many of them. I, I'm so excited for the book festival, and I will put the link below in the show notes so people can check it out and create, more crowds on the island.

Tim Ehrenberg 40:32

You'll have to make it some year. I know that you're on the other side of

Brett Benner 40:36

the country. No, I would love to., I would love to go back, and it's funny'cause the friends that we were in Nan- Nantucket with before, they were like,"Well, we need to go back," and we're like,"We just moved. We're not going to somewhere else right now. We have gotta, like, settle into this house." But yeah, I would love to come back for the festival. I think it sounds amazing, and Nantucket is just, it truly is so beautiful and, and so special, as well as, like, incredible restaurants. Mm-hmm. I mean, the whole thing, it's, it's, it's very dreamlike. So I get your love of it. I get, like, never wanting to leave. Thank you so much, and I will for sure see you online, and, good luck with the festival. Good luck with the house, too. I'm loving watching all of the renovations. It looks incredible. I'm sure it's gonna be just a, an incredible sanctuary when it's finished.

Tim Ehrenberg 41:20

Thank you. Thanks for having me, Brett. Happy reading.

Brett Benner 41:23

Thank you again, Tim. And if you've enjoyed this conversation or other conversations you've heard on Behind the Stack, please consider liking and subscribing so that you never miss an episode. The other thing that would be really helpful is if you could give the show five stars on your podcast platform of choice so other people can also find the show. I'll be back next week with another episode, and in the meantime, you can find me on Instagram, on YouTube, and now on Substack at Brett's Book Stack. Thanks for listening.