Wade Rouse, That's What Friends Are For

In this episode Brett sits down with Wade Rouse to discuss his Golden Girls inspired book, 'That's What Friends Are For'. They talk age, queer cross pollination, the impact his Grandmother had on his life, spirituality, friendship, and a foodie walk through Palm Springs. 

Wade's website:

https://waderouse.com/

Wade's instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/authorwaderouse/

If you like what you're hearing on this podcast please subscribe so you never miss an episode!

Watch Behind the Stack on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@brettsbookstack

Bookshop.org page:
https://www.bookshop.org/shop/brettsbookstack

Brett's instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/bretts.book.stack

Behind the Stack email:
brettsbookstack@gmail.com

Transcript

Brett Benner 0:00

Hey everybody, it's Brett Benner and welcome or welcome back to another episode of Behind the Stack, where today I am sitting down with author Wade Rouse for his brand new book. That's what friends are for It is a heartwarming, really wonderful book about a group of friends in Palm Springs, California, and I just loved it. A little bit about Wade. He is the USA today and internationally. A bestselling author of five memoirs and 12. Novels. His novels written under the pseudonym Viola Shipman, which he uses to honor his late grandmother, have been selected as must reads by NBC's Today Show, as well as Michigan notable books of the year and featured in the Washington Post. Wade lives in Michigan and California and hosts wine and words with Wade. A literary happy hour on Facebook every Thursday. Okay. So please enjoy this episode of Behind the Stack. Hey everybody, it's Brett and welcome back to another episode where I'm thrilled to be sitting down with Wade Rouse for his new book. That's What Friends Are For, which is wonderful and, and so heartfelt. I'm so glad you're here and congratulations.

Wade Rouse 1:15

Thank you. And thank you for having me. As I told you, thank you for all you do for books and authors. It's, uh, it's amazing.

Brett Benner 1:20

Well, I also have to give high props to your publicist, Kathleen, because. I was aware of this book and then she sent it to me and she said, read this and I'd love to have'em on the show. And I said, I, I really wanna read it, but I don't know that I have the room'cause I'm so backed up right now. And I read it. I started it on a Saturday and finished it Sunday morning. So I texted her immediately and I was like, listen, I'm gonna find space. I really want to have'em on. I was just so moved by this. And she's like, great, I'm thrilled. So I have to really give her that shout out because, she was doing her job and she was right. So there you go.

Wade Rouse 1:54

Thank you. Yeah. And you know, the best publicist, microchip, everyone's, they know exactly what what's happening at any time.

Brett Benner 2:02

I'm so interested before we get into the book, because the whole viola shipment thing that you, you know, you've put out so many books who, you came up with this name after your grandmother, correct?

Wade Rouse 2:13

Correct.

Brett Benner 2:14

So here's my question. Why, when you started out on this, why did you make this decision to write under this pseudonym?

Wade Rouse 2:20

That's a great question. You know. I actually started my career writing memoir. I had published four memoirs, under my own name. Just fun. I mean, it's, you know, about me growing up gay in the Missouri Ozarks. You know, my work at an elite prep school with the wealthy, it's called Confessions of a Prep School, mommy Handler, about me, you know, hiding my sexuality around these really, really wealthy. Women, I called the mean mommies. And then my husband and I moving from the city to Saga Tech Michigan in February to a 19 hundreds cabin that I'm in right now. And you know, I wrote it to be to a hundred percent honest, I had written a fifth memoir that my agent could not sell. It was a quirky, weird, book about my. Vanity coupled with my mother's, battle with cancer and it just couldn't go anywhere. And I lost my mother. My father fell into dementia. I was trying to move him in out of our family house in the Ozarks into a and we've been all been there into a smaller place. And my dad was a Ozarks mule that, you know, kicked me in the chest screaming would not move. And it was at a low point that I walked up into the attic and I found all of my grandma Shipman's heirlooms boxed up where they'd been for decades. You know, her charm bracelets and recipe boxes and her hope chest and quilts and her singer sewing machine. And you know, my grandmother, growing up gay in the Ozarks in the seventies was not easy. I played trombone and I. Wanted to be Irma Bombeck and things that are not normal for Ozarks Boys back then. And she protected me and loved me unconditionally and celebrated my what she always called my weightedness. And my grandmother never finished high school. She never learned to drive. She walked down Main Street every day to a job at a factory. Stitching, overalls. And yet she was the smartest. Kindest woman I've ever known that, never asked for a thing in her entire life, never a thank you, and sacrificed everything for my family. She saved change so my mom could go to college. Truly changed the trajectory. So when I started writing this, when I went up there, I truly started writing the first novel called The Charm Boy. I set on top of a cardboard box and I called my agent and said I wanted to use my grandmother's name. Because in a hundred years from now, I want people to continue to say it'cause she was overlooked for not having any status or power education in this world. And I think it's a reconnection to who we are. And I, I I want people to remember that.

Brett Benner 4:47

Wow. That's beautiful. So for this book, when you started to write this, correct me if I'm wrong, but, but this came to you as an idea and then you were like, I'm just gonna write this thing and see what happens. Your, your, your editor, they had no idea what you were originally coming up with, correct.

Wade Rouse 5:01

Correct. I, I signed a, a new book contract about a year and a half ago for three new viola shipment novels. And I, I'm a big picture, but you know, I'm not an author that's like, I got this one idea. I usually have like four or five that I think will be fascinating. And I had those down and I was about to hit send and this. This story had been sitting with me for years, years since COVID, and I tacked it on at the very end and sent it. And my editor called me within 24 hours and said, you've written so many beautiful stories that honor your grandmother and your family. I think this story honors you and your history and I think you need to write it and it needs to come out under your own name. And it was very quick. And I felt it was the right moment for this book, and that's why I included it. And it was just. You know, sometimes I think when you're the most scared, the best things happen in life, and that's kind of what transpired with this.

Brett Benner 5:52

Wow. Okay. So now for our, our viewers and our listeners, can you give a, a little elevator pitch of the book?

Wade Rouse 5:57

Yeah, yeah. That's what Friends are for, follows four gay men over the age of 60, each of whom has one of the characteristics of one of the golden girls from the sitcom, and they perform every month a. Drag show known as The Golden Gaze in which they bring episodes of the classic sitcom to life for new audiences in Palm Springs, California. And they all live in Jaja, Gabor, as you know, very real, very pink home, very mid-century beauty in Palm Springs. And, you know, each has a secret that they're kind of struggling with that they don't wanna share with the other men because it's supposed to be their, their golden years. You know, the never ending martini happy hour. And they kind of keep that hidden until Teddy's. A strange sister shows up on their doorstep with her teenage granddaughter and toe and everything sort of unravels quickly, like you know, the hemline on Dorothy's calf tan. It's a story about found family and, and friendship and the struggles that, our community has endured over the last 40 years and how so much in the world has changed and how. So little in this world has changed. We're still battling the same things that we have, um, forever, and it's getting exhausting, which is why I wanted to bring this story to life.

Brett Benner 7:10

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the inspiration for some of this became out of a real life incident revolving the golden girls, correct.

Wade Rouse 7:18

Yeah, very much so. You know, I was, um, 19 and in college and in a fraternity when the Golden Girls came out. I was 19 years old and it was, you know, not a show meant for a fraternity boy. You know, I was, I could, I, I loved, I could maybe a

Brett Benner 7:35

certain fraternity boy

Wade Rouse 7:36

though. Fraternity, and which I was, which is what I was trying to lean into, you know, and I could chug a beer and I watched sports and did all of those things. But, I had lost my older brother when I was going into high school and he had just graduated in an accident and I thought my brother Todd would give my family everything he, they wanted and deserved, you know, daughter-in-law and grandchildren and all the happiness. And when he died, I buried him. Along with myself and just, I didn't want my family to suffer'cause they were broken. And I went to college and just kind of became the life of the party and you know, a big drinker, still a hell of a lot of fun, but I was not, I was not happy. And this show came on and. I started, I heard from sorority sisters and little sisters in my fraternity about it, and my mom and grandma were watching it, and I started watching it long distance with them by snaking the cord of the rotary phone into my room before fraternity parties would start. And we watched it many, many, many Saturdays at 8:00 PM as a way to laugh and connect that show. As we all know, broached big. Big topics and it allowed me a way to kind of understand my mom and grandmother as older women. And it allowed them to understand me, and kind of a paved way for me actually to come out to them. And it was, it was something I, you know, I did not expect that the show really does have a lot of personal meaning to me because it. You know, 40 years ago this show was just meant to make people laugh and it's still resonating with folks around the world to this day.

Brett Benner 9:08

Certainly. No, it is. And every time you look, there's a meme on social media from the show. So when you started to come up with these characters, do you find yourself, okay, how am I adhering them to the original women? And they kind of took a life of their own, or how did that work for you?

Wade Rouse 9:23

It was a toughie, you know, and that was a big conversation I had with my editor and my agent because people know this show. I mean, they know these characters backwards and forwards, so I didn't wanna make them caricatures of the women because then everybody would find fault with them and pick them apart. What I wanted to do was take kind of those inner, pieces of those women and bring them to life through these men and they're. And, and totally different backstories and histories. You know, Teddy's humor is like Dorothy's, you know, why is he funny? It's a, it's self-protection from all the abuse he's endured. Ron is a caretaker, much like Rose was in the show. Why is he like that? It's because he was abused by his father who was a pastor and he only has wanted a home and safety his whole life. So I tried to bring those nuggets from each of the characters to life in a completely different way. And it was hard to do in the beginning'cause I did not want the four to be caricatures.

Brett Benner 10:21

Sure. What I love though is it seems like each. Within each character. There's not only, I don't wanna say lesson, it's not that, but there is a kind of examination of a different facet of gay culture or being gay or the experience. I'm, I, I was thinking specifically like Barry and his old he experience who. Kind of based on this character of, of this real life actor, which I'll let you talk about in a second. But this whole idea with him of, you know, the television industry, the, the quest for fame and homophobia and the industry and being queer in that industry and what that meant. So I just found this kind of focus and like, Sid, oh God, I love Sid so much. Who is the oldest of the group? Who finds this younger man being attracted to him, and it's so sweet and so raw and real, but that this character in particular, this idea of aging and still feeling attractive and still feeling relevant as not only just as a person but as a sexual being too. And so I think you really beautifully touched on so many different facets of, of life and aging and. And being queer under this whole kind of umbrella.

Wade Rouse 11:39

Thank you. You know, those are, these are all pieces of my own life and they're pieces of my friends' lives and they're pieces of our community's lives that I wanted to bring to light for readers because, you know, you touch on Sid. He's one of my favorite characters I've ever written and what it must be like to be, and we have so many friends that are now coupled, but. Came out later in life. Had families, children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren. And the gay community, as you know, is so close and yet can be so hard on each other. Mm-hmm. You know, you walk into a bar and you're o of a certain age and you're invisible. It's like the rest of society. We're so focused on image and looks and body and money and Instagram followers. Like Sid, he is a piece of our collective history and such a beautiful soul. And I, I'm fascinated by so many of my friends that had to wait so long in their lives, much like I didn't have to wait that long, but I waited until, you know, I was well into my thirties simply to be seen, just to be seen in this world as. A beautiful person on the inside and out. And for him, you know, that's the whole message of the book, just loving yourself no matter what age it is, finally. And I love his relationship and the fact that he is beautiful and somebody actually takes the time to see that and falls in love with that. It broke my heart and then rebuilt it. You know, I would write about him and stop and weep. And then for John.

Brett Benner 13:10

Yeah, A, it is exactly that. He broke my heart and yet at the same time I was so rooting for him. It's so interesting as I was just listening to you talk about this kind of age thing I was thinking about, I was going through the Vanity Fair photos for the party after the Oscars, and I was looking at the pictures of Holland Taylor and. Sarah Paulson and that relationship and how amazing it is to me. And what was interesting watching them last night,'cause it was one of the first times that Holland Taylor, who's so vibrant, seemed a little older and they were in front of the press line, which is such a bizarre thing anyway, watching people and you're, they're just shouting at you and flashes going off. But having Sarah maneuver her and place her and just really take care of her and it's so beautiful. And Sarah has such. An incredible amount of love for this woman, and the relationship is so special to me. So I just, I, I was rooting so hard the whole time for Sid because I do, I think everyone experiences it and I, I think if you get to a certain age and we're lucky enough to reach a certain age and you're watching your friends all start to age. Yeah. It's tough and it's hard and so a lot of it is you do have to laugh. About a lot of it and so much of what you're hitting on in the book from skin, like crepe paper or, there's a great line. Sid has this wonderful friend who's kind of this ballbuster Jewish woman who made me laugh so hard in their relationship. They're like, will and Grace at 80. Yes. But I, but I love, at one point she says to him that twinkle in your eye is actually from your cataracts. And that made me laugh so hard. But I, I just found this relationship really beautiful.

Wade Rouse 14:58

Thank you. You know it's interesting, Steven Rowley kicked off my, book tour in Palm Springs with an event as at the Plaza Theater as part of Palm Springs speaks, and he asked me a completely out of the blue rando question, which was about aging. He said, he said, did you ever think you would be alive to be here right now when you were younger? And it really, my voice gets shaky. It really, caught me off guard because I didn't, you know, I at one point tried to take my own life. I was filled with so much shame. We went through, the AIDS crisis so much has occurred. Um, and. In our lifetimes. And I don't know if I would've expected to be here at the age of 60, vibrant, happy, and alive and, and, you know, wanting to write forever. And it was a beautiful question. And that's, you know, that kind of gets to the heart even of Sid too in a lot of these men in the book.

Brett Benner 15:53

Yeah, because I wrote this down, I was like, you know, this book is also a testament to the idea that the. Gay men have been survivors because everything, everything you just said, I mean, you and I, I think are, we're two years apart, right? I think I'm two years younger than you are. And when I graduated from school, from college, I was, I moved to New York and AIDS was still prevalent, but we were on the other side of it. Right. It kind of peaked. Yeah. But there was still that for me, utter fear of any kind of, sexual connection or anything that could happen. Exactly. I was such a high, I was such a hypochondriac that I was constantly looking at my body that anytime I'd have a pimple, I'd be like, this is it. You know, I, I, and I think like five, six years in the other direction, it would've been a completely different game. And I, you know, that is such a huge thing and another. Topic that you really touch on very quickly in the book is there's a scene in the bar with kind of a, a young kind of twink comes up and that idea of, and you talk about this, of the existing younger generations, understanding what came before them. And I do think that gets lost a lot of times, and I do think this book is a reminder to me of. Not only being aware of your elders, but I'm a big proponent now, and maybe it's because I'm older of having these kind of cross pollinations of cultures. Yes. Because I think it's so vital for the community as a whole to thrive. Especially not especially now, but I say especially now because of everything that's going on. The country right now and in the world. But I do think that there's importance of just having a, a wider community of young people being around old people and old people being around young people and, and all of it. And that's why this character of Ava, who is Teddy's the great niece. Yeah. Or

Wade Rouse 17:49

grand niece.

Brett Benner 17:50

Grand niece, yes. She's so fantastic. I mean, the 16-year-old who Teddy kind of recognizes parts of himself in, do you have someone, do you have someone in your life like that? Do you have a person in your life who I was gonna say keeps you relevant? But, but yeah. Someone who's sassy and keeps you current?

Wade Rouse 18:09

I do. I do. And it's, and you just said that so beautifully. You know. It is. I love that cross pollination. That's, it's, it's beautifully said. That's exactly what it is. Jodi Pico blurbed this book, and she has a, she has an openly gay son. We ended up texting each other and she said, you know, you really are the sandwich generation of many and many in many. In the reality of the world. And she goes, it's a hard place to be, to be kind of that bridge between, you know, the, the older generation in the gay community and the very young, that's done so much and paved the way for so many, but gets overlooked. In many ways, and I did, you know, we have a lot of younger gay friends, and that's, that's me and Gary's mantra. It's like younger friends. Younger friends, keep us relevant, you know, keep us hip, keep us in the music, let us know. Right. No fashion mistakes. And we're also, my best friend from college has twins that are now in college, and he lost his wife a number of years ago when Gary and I became the twin's godparents. And so who do they call when they're. You know, in trouble or late night at a bar or something's going on, it's not gonna be dad, you know, or they're right. Grandma or grandpa, it's us because, and they're the generation that is, gonna save our asses. I think in many realms they see me and Gary from me and Gary with no labels attached. Nothing else but just simply who we are, and that we love them and I wanted that. I wanted a younger. Character in there to kind of actually be the wise one in the entire group to actually, you know, keeps up with Teddy with the zingers and the one-liners because I have to say the kids today are funny and fast and quick, but you know, also just shows what hopefully the future might look like for all of us.

Brett Benner 19:55

I do think it's such an important thing, and I do think for the relevance of it all, and for, you know, and just being aware, I, I feel like it's the only way to stay young, right? Because the thing about age, is like I used to say, it's such a crazy thing because none of your, hopes, dreams, aspirations, all those things still exist. It's just your exterior starts to change. Yeah. And so you notice people start to relate to you differently and that's such a mind fuck. I, I think

Wade Rouse 20:24

it's, and you, and you've really, I mean, you nailed really the heart of the book too. That's exactly it. All of those. You know, to, you know, Barry being an actor and wanting his career back, Sid, wanting to be loved, Ron wanting a family. None of that changes as we age. No, none of you know, I still, you know, I still want a book made into a movie or TV show. Those, those dreams do not change. This, this does. And I still feel like, you know, I'm still the same 18-year-old smart ass that I was making at three of the Ozarks. But you're right, that's, that's exactly, that's exactly foundationally what the book is.

Brett Benner 21:02

Do you find,'cause you are so quick and these characters are so quick and it's something that you talk about in the book in terms of somebody, gay men have this.

Wade Rouse 21:10

Yeah.

Brett Benner 21:11

Incredible wit. Do you find it for you? Some of it was self-defense and a way to protect

Wade Rouse 21:17

a hundred percent. You know, I grew up in a rural high school of about 80 kids from a lot of different counties that were brought together.'cause the area was so small and I worried every single day walking down the hallway, you know, if I held my books a certain way, the way my boys sounded, I got my head bashed in the lockers a few times. You know, it was, was a fight for safety and humor was the way that I protected myself. You know, I, I was not a fi I was a fighter with, with, I was a verbal fighter. Not, you know, not strong to hit back. But that's the way I could strike back against, against bullies. And if I could tell a joke or make them laugh, they wouldn't come at me. If I could make the girls that loved me in high school laugh, they would protect me. And if people got too close or too abusive or too mean, then I was smarter than the lot and I could cut them down at the knees. With something that I said, and it's, that's the way it's been. I mean, you know, yeah. Gay men are survivors and, you know, our veracity, our quips, our one-liners are the way that we bring people in, but also keep them away. It's our armor in many ways. And it was hard in the book, you know, humor is harder to write than, than, um, making someone cry. You know, I can tell a story about my dog dying and I, a hundred percent of the folks are gonna weep their eyes out. But making someone laugh, you know. Tell a joke to a hundred people, 50, you'll think I'm a genius 50. You'll think I'm a jackass. And that was part in this book was to, you know, my editor said, this is like, like a Leanne Morgan standup act. You know, how do you, how do you know what's gonna fall flat? But it's gotta be relevant to the character and the situation, and the timing. And I, I had way too much in there and we had to slowly pair that back so that it really, the pacing cranked. Kinda like a sitcom. That's what I was going for.

Brett Benner 23:09

Well, and you did, and even your structure with the different acts. I mean, I, that wasn't lost on me immediately, that you would set this up like a, like a sitcom. Thank you. But so how do you test some of that out? Is it a question of you would sit there and verbally, you would, you would verbalize some of these things to say, how does this fall?

Wade Rouse 23:25

A hundred percent. I, you know, I always read, I finish a book, I edit a book like 40 times, and then I read it aloud over and over and over. And I think it's almost like listening to a choir sing. You know, if someone's off tune you. Can tell immediately when you're sitting there. And it's the same way, in humor and pacing and writing and you know this, you can hear the false notes. Yeah, you can hear when you're starting to bore yourself, you can hear if something's really not working. So that's kind of my key is I always read everything aloud over and over very slowly to myself. And then to Gary, my husband is my test audience. He's my, you know, very angry beta reader.'cause he's way too honest. He's way too honest. And he'll tell me, he'll yawn, or, you know, he'll walk away or he'll boom. Which is not what a writer wants to hear, but it works. And then you can kind of slowly go back in and, and peel that away.

Brett Benner 24:20

Yeah. It's interesting because, you know. The same way with comedy writing, it's with actors, with comedy too. It's a much harder medium and people that can do comedy I think can do anything because what it is is, and the book has this too, there's a musicality about comedy it. And I always say with actors who get it, they hear it right? And it's, they know how to carry it. They know how to set it up. You can tell when you're getting somebody in. Who has never done comedy before, because it's just it. It just stands out. But the book does that too, where there's a musicality to the way that the lines are written, that it pops and flows and you can hear it whether or not you're actually reading it on the page, or if you're listening to say, the audio book, it's the same thing. It would be hard to miss. So it's great. And it And it, thank you reads exactly like that. I mean, there's times that it reads almost like. When you get into the dialogue between some of these characters, it reads like the crackle of a script. Like it's just the bing bang, bang, bang, which it should, and it's, it's great.

Wade Rouse 25:18

Thank you. I'm taking you on tour with me. I'm just gonna pop you in the. Feed your pizza and wine and we'll go from there. And, but, but you're exactly right. And it's the way my friends talk to each other, you know, after I've had a couple of drinks or whatever and we're really going and we're telling tales and stories. It's that I love that. Is that back and forth is the beauty that dialogue is the beauty that, that I have with my friends that I wanted these friends to have too.

Brett Benner 25:46

And you're also the meanest to each other than anybody else. That's

Wade Rouse 25:48

exactly right. And my editor actually said, she goes, Ooh, some of these, God. And I'm like, I'm sorry. You know, for us, if I, if I didn't care, I'm not gonna give that to you. And that's how they show they care in many ways. And it's, it's a little, I think for some straights it's a little off-putting, but that's how we talk to each other.

Brett Benner 26:06

I have a friend and I, I had to tell him once he refers to everyone as girl, right? Oh, and it's always, it's not even girl. It's girl. It's all spread out. That's

Wade Rouse 26:14

my husband.

Brett Benner 26:15

Yeah. And so he did that constantly. And I remember the first time my mother came to visit and came over and I had to be like, bill, you need to temper it, because I know she was so confused with what was being said. She was like, I don't see a girl in the room. I'm so confused. And you know, pointing to me and be like, and this girl here, you know, she thinks, and so yeah, I was like, all right. The character of Ron. You know, he is this guy who's, he's very much the C, also extremely spiritual. And I'm curious, was this part of your. And let me ask you this as a follow up to that, how do you view yourself now in terms of religion and in terms of spirituality?

Wade Rouse 26:55

Wow. It's a great question. It is, and it was. I, I, the area I grew up in was, almost entirely Southern Baptist. So if folks don't know what that is, you know, it, it means that. They would come sit in our bleachers at high school dances and pray while you danced. Um, you know, there was no secular music that was allowed to be played. So, you know, a boy of Wham and Madonna, this did not play well. But you know, you. In the Ozarks. Growing up in the seventies and eighties, there was not a lot to do. So church as it remains for so many in, in the US today, that is kind of the social activity for folks. sadly and ironically, when my brother passed away, the church that we were attending used it as kind of a, it was very hell and damn nation and brimstone and you know, the earth is going to hell. And you know, that's the church I grew up going to. My mother ended up believing that church along with my grandmother because it was so disgusting. And my mother was a nurse and way ahead of her time and she started studying world religion after that and we stopped going to church. But my mother retained her faith and we would set out on our stone patio behind our house in the Ozarks on 10 acres of woods and she would, she would read from World Religion to me rather than what I had grown up. So I learned about spirituality and that, you know, the world was much bigger beyond the small town in which I lived and much bigger beyond this church of a hundred people that I was attending. And it changed my life. And I tried to write about this in the book. I think that you can have faith in something outside of a church. Outside of organized religion and outside of all the hatred that we've been exposed to today, because of that, you know, I was at a point in my life many times in which I was, you know, I believe that those of us that have faced hell on earth and have been abandoned by everyone, that's when we find,, something to hold on to. And that's how I would describe my life today. You know, I, I, I have, I have a form of faith outside of organized religion because that's caused so much damage to us. But I, you know, where we live in Palm Springs, where we live in Michigan, the beauty of what surrounds me is what centers me and brings me great joy.

Brett Benner 29:18

Wow. Do you have a community in Michigan? I, because I know you do in Palm Springs that, do you have the same kind of community there or is it different, or how is that?

Wade Rouse 29:29

It's very similar. You know, I, when we moved up here, it was because it was an arts community. Agata doesn't allow any chains in our little town. It's all art galleries. It's artists that have gathered here for a reason, is here. It's part of the Chicago Art Museum and it's where all of the artists used to come a hundred, 125 years ago to lead the city and just kind of do plain air or paint in nature. And it's become a renowned place to teach and learn. So artists from all around the world come and gather here during the summer. So yes, I have a community of artists and friends that are like-minded and beautiful and free spirited and, and it's very much like Palm Springs just on the lake and in the Midwest.

Brett Benner 30:13

Yeah. And what an amazing opportunity to have such different topographies, do you know what I mean?

Wade Rouse 30:19

It's very, yeah. The juxtaposition is beautiful and centering. Yeah.

Brett Benner 30:22

That's, that's amazing. Talking about Palm Palm Springs for a second.'cause I know you say in the back, it's kind of your homage to Palm Springs and you dedicate it to Palm Springs. Yeah. And it is like its own character in the book. How long have you been in Palm Springs now? 10 years. Is it?

Wade Rouse 30:37

Yeah. We bought our home 10 years ago. Um, and I've been going out about 15 or 16.

Brett Benner 30:44

Okay. Amazing. Have you, have you found it has changed a lot.

Wade Rouse 30:50

Very, very much so. You know, I think it was quieter. I think Coachella has changed the dynamic of it. COVID changed the dynamic of Palm Springs so that you know, people can work anywhere now and they do from the desert'cause it's so beautiful. It's more vibrant. There are more restaurants. I think there are more opportunities for music, but it still has that same beauty and history that. Has brought people there for decades. You know, the architecture and that rat pack history and you know, just, I always find communities where people. Go there for a reason. They want to be there. They want to be with their people. That makes the community beautiful and special. And everyone we've met there has, has kind of, you know, descended on Palm Springs for a very specific reason, and that's because they wanna be there. And that, that changes, that changes a place. And I, I, I love it so much. And right now it's about 18 degrees in Michigan and I can't wait to get to 90. I, my, I'm not, I can't do this.

Brett Benner 31:59

There is something to be said, humming in from la. That moment that you're coming around the corner, across the windmills and you're in that final stretch, and I would just feel my shoulders drop. And I've always said to people, and people come to visit, and there's something about this space time continuum when you hit Palm Springs, where it feels like everything goes out the window in three days. Felt like two weeks. Yeah. It just would always be so relaxing. So to live here, to live out the desert now, I feel so privileged. I feel so fortunate. I feel so lucky to like be able to walk out into my back in the morning and look up to see a mountain and birds everywhere and it's, it's really magical. But I need to ask you the important questions. Because you've been there for so long, I know you have favorite haunts, so we need to talk about a few of your favorite restaurants for listeners. I feel like you and Steven Roll, they should be a, that's what friends are for. Walk Palms.

Wade Rouse 32:52

Um, I, okay, well, I'd like, let's, okay. I'm a coffee nut. Okay. So, I mean, I go to coffee. We go to coffee, K-O-F-F-I at least four times a week. Um, we

Brett Benner 33:04

Have you ever, have you had, have you had their cinnamon rolls?

Wade Rouse 33:07

Oh my god, they're so good. They're so good.

Brett Benner 33:10

They're the best cinnamon rolls like I find myself, I'm a connoisseur and they are the best anywhere. And what it is, is I tell people all the time, I take them back to LA for my business partner, and she was the one who told me, she's like, you know, these freeze incredibly well. So she. Cuts them in half and freezes them. Ah. So you just have a part and then you microwave them for 20 seconds. I mean, that's the key. Okay, so go ahead. Coffee, the can

Wade Rouse 33:34

icing. I'm like, I the icing, I'm an icing person.

Brett Benner 33:38

The icing is the be like, I don't know what their mix is because I know there's gotta be powdered sugar, of course, which always has a metallic taste to it. It is just so vanilla forward. It's the best icing of any cinnamon roll I've ever had.

Wade Rouse 33:53

It's true. And I have to say, my husband Gary's, like I married my grandmother, he is the best baker in the world. So I can just eat, I can eat icing out of just a bowl. Yeah. I mean, sugar's like part of the food pyramid. We love coffee. We go to the canyon corridor and sit outside. Yeah. Um, we always go to, we call it daddy coffee on talk withs, which is where the older gay men go and the younger gay men go to find them. We just love to watch what's going on there. We love Copley's. It's, I write about in the restaurant, it's just, it's Kerry Grant's kind of former place and it's a just lovely food and service. We really like bba, which is a pizza restaurant that's outdoor. It's one of our favorite, our go-tos.

Brett Benner 34:36

Have you had the roasted cauliflower?

Wade Rouse 34:38

It's our favorite. That's all we get.

Brett Benner 34:40

So roasted cauliflower, they also do, there's a pizza. I haven't been in a while, but they used to do with hot honey before. Hot honey was even a thing. It's incredible.

Wade Rouse 34:49

And, you know, I have to say, I write about, there's a little place called Counter Reformation that's in the Parker Hotel that's a kind of a hidden bar. And Barry meets his ex at this place. And it's terrific. They have just little tapas, um, paired with cocktails or wine or champagne, a very small list. You sit around kind of a semicircle of a bar and you know, the staff is so knowledgeable about the wine and the cocktails and the food, and it's just a fascinating. Group that kind of navigates there and it's one of my favorite places to go and take, take, visitors. Love that. We like 8, 4, 9 if we're just like, kind of hanging out. I, I mean, it's, it's endless. And you talk about Palm Springs, I, I really wanted to bring the desert to life because I think people misjudge. The, the majesty of the mountains and how they change throughout the day, and I, I wanted people to understand and experience that it's as magical as the ocean or Lake Michigan that we live on. There's just, there's a, there's a, just a profound beauty to it and to, and spirituality that I wanted people to experience through it.

Brett Benner 35:57

A hundred percent. I, I agree with you a hundred percent. Well, Wade, this has been wonderful. The book is, is so, so good. Everybody please go out and get it and buy independent if you can or get it from your library. It is also, I will say a fantastic audio book with a full cast who all do a really wonderful job. So I'm so excited for you. Please check it out, especially for all of you who have any kind of pining for Palm Springs. You're gonna love it, and if you're of a certain age or even not of a certain age, you should

Wade Rouse 36:28

thank.

Brett Benner 36:30

Thanks again for joining me, Wade, and if you've liked today's episode or other episodes of Behind the Stack, please consider liking and subscribing so that you never miss an episode. Also, as I always ask every week, if you can do something that would help me and you like the show, please consider giving it five stars on your podcast platform of choice. And if you have the time to write a review that. Would be amazing. As always, you can reach me at Brett's book stack@gmail.com. You can also find me on Instagram, YouTube, and now Substack under Brett's book stack as well. I will be back next week with another episode. And actually there will be a bonus episode later this week with my friend Renee, talking about first quarter Faves. So look for that and I hope wherever you are, you have a great day. And as always, thanks for listening.