Behind The Stack
A book podcast with book lover Brett Benner of bretts.book.stack
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Author interviews and bookish conversations to help add more to your TBR pile!
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Behind The Stack
Kristen Arnett, Stop Me If You've Heard This One
In this episode Brett sits down with author Kristen Arnett to discuss her new book, "Stop Me If You've Heard This One". They talk about clowns of course, the great state of Florida, but also following a non traditional writing path that can still be as equally if not more rewarding than a traditional route.
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https://www.instagram.com/kristen__arnett/
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https://kristenarnett.substack.com/
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Hey everybody, it's Brett and welcome or welcome back to another episode of Behind the Stack. Hope you all are having a fantastic week so far. By the time this airs, the severance finale will have already happened and there'll be a lot more chatter about what's not happening on the white Lotus.
There are a couple of books that I wanted to bring up that are being released today.
Brett Benner:The first is Paul Rudnick. What is Wrong With You? The wonderful Paul Rudnick. This is a comedic novel about a group of what seems like, disparate individuals, but they all kind of have relationships with each other who all come together to go to the wedding of the year at an exclusive event. So that's out today. Also about today is Collum McCann's new book Twist, which is simply fantastic. this is something that I actually listened to on audio, and it, it really, it worked great on audio and, Collum McCann reads it, and he's, he's fantastic. So if you're an audio book person, definitely check that out. I'm actually going to get a hard copy of it because I loved it so much. Also, out today for you thriller people out there, the lovely Ashley Winstead, her new book. This book Will bury me, comes out about a group of amateur sleuths who hunt for an elusive killer, while the world watches. And then the one other book that's coming out today that I'm intrigued by, and it's a beautiful cover which none of you I know can see at this moment, but it says, from the New York Times bestselling author of the Cloisters comes an electrifying thriller about an opulent family retreat to Italy that's shattered by the resurfacing of a decades old crime. book's title is Salt Water, and it's by Kathy So. That looks really fun and like a really great book to get for the beach. So anyway, those are some of the books that are out today. Now onto today's guest, I was really excited to sit down with writer Kristin Arnett, whose new book Stop me if you heard this one came out last week. She's one of those people and I talk about it in our conversation, who I just find so infectious on social media and watching her in conversation. So I was really looking forward to sitting down and having this conversation and she did not disappoint. So a little bit about. Kristen, she is the New York Times bestselling author of the novels with teeth and mostly dead things. She has twice been a finalist for a Lambda Literary Award, and she lives in Orlando, Florida. So please enjoy this episode of Behind the Stack. Okay. I have my coffee. I'm good to go. Thank you so much for being here. I was talking about your book on my on my YouTube page a few weeks ago.'cause I had just started it and I was talking about things I was reading for, for, for February. And you are so interesting to me because you're one of those people, I have a feeling that so many people feel like they know you probably without actually knowing you. You have one of those kind of personalities. And I was saying on my YouTube, I have never talked to you. I've never met you. I've never even interacted with you on social media, and yet I was like, but I feel like we would be friends.
Kristen Arnett:I love that. I feel like we'd be friends. We're friends now.
Brett Benner:I mean, and I and I, and I feel like you're kind of one of those people that probably engender that and other people that they probably are like, well. Actually she's, she's my best friend also because it's like, I loved in your afterwards you're like, I have so many friends, and you'd listen. I loved that so much. So, anyway, so there's no pressure at all, but I just needed to tell you that. That's really nice. all that to say, I'm, I'm thrilled that you're here. I really loved your book. But it's so terrific. Both your covers are so much fun. The UK cover is great as well. They're really wonderful covers. So I just wanted to talk a little bit about you for a moment before we actually got into the book. So you were born in Florida, right? You were born and bred, correct?
Kristen Arnett:Yeah, generation
Brett Benner:wow. Okay. So, and then you grew up in quite an evangelical home, correct?
Kristen Arnett:Yes, I did. My father, my family is like a. Southern Baptist yeah. So it's a very specific, kind of like conservative, evangelical upbringing for sure. Yeah.
Brett Benner:Did, did you have siblings?
Kristen Arnett:I have. I'm the oldest of three, so it's myself and then my brother who's two years younger than me and my sister, who's like eight and a half years younger than me.
Brett Benner:Now, I know you're estranged, I think, from your parents, but do you have a relationship with your siblings?
Kristen Arnett:I have a relationship with my sister. Actually she's also queer. She just got married. I, I think she's like, she's saying queer now. First she was saying bisexual. She just got married. I love her partner. He's so lovely. We hosted her, like a reception in our backyard here at my house. And it was actually really nice because growing up we, like eight and a half years is kind of like a gap. And I had room with her growing up. So it's like we were not the closest growing up, but now that we're adults it's been nice because yeah, she's basically the only person I have contact with for my family.
Brett Benner:So, okay, so then jumping ahead. You had a son and so you were working as a librarian right? To, to support yourself and make ends meet. so tell me about that and moving from that, how did the writing start?
Kristen Arnett:Yeah, I mean the writing like has, was always kind of happening in the background. I think I just never considered myself to be a writer. I think I do that thing that like plenty of us do, where we have enough going on in our lives and then we are like, oh, well I, I don't feel like I deserve to call myself a writer. So I was, but I also was very busy. I had my son, I was working full time. I. Was started gonna school at night. So I always say like I had a very like non-traditional kind of like path through education and that's something I really like to talk about when I'm talking about writing, especially with young writers because I think there's this idea that like, there's one single path to like be a creative person. And that's obviously not the case'cause it definitely wasn't the case for me. I was like. Yeah, I was going to school at night and then I was writing in my free time which was very small amounts of free time. So I was writing like, you know, early in the morning when I'd get up and have to like open the library in like pockets of time, like at night, like when like my son was asleep and I would be like, still kind of buzzing from a very full day. And also stressed out'cause I had no money and being scared about finances. So those things are like, I feel like I was so productive in those years. I kind of look like back on it now and anytime I feel like I'm busy, like quote unquote now, I'm like, well, are you really that busy? Because think about like all the things you used to have to do all the time. But yeah, it was one of those things where I was like, I'm just gonna do it. So I did my undergrad that way and then I'm gonna go ahead and do my master's in library science the same kind of way at night. Mm-hmm. So I was still like working in the library. I was also. Then I was really starting to like I was writing essays. I was applying for workshops because I was like, I can't do an MFA. That was one of the choices I made where I was like, after I finished my undergrad, I. Really wanted to maybe do an MFA and I was like, this isn't financially responsible to do with a, a child. I didn't wanna uproot him. I was always very serious about wanting to make sure that he had everything he needed and that he, I wanted him to stay in the same school and keep the same friends. it was very important for me, to feel like I was providing him with a sense of stability. So I was like, I can't uproot him and drag him to like some program I'm going to somewhere. Like that's ridiculous. So I was like, okay, I can't do that, but what can I do? So that I feel I'm getting that kind of like writing. Assistance and support that I need. And one of the things I was like, well, I can DIY, anything, like I'm, I'm from Orlando. Mm-hmm. Like, like, I'm like, I can do, I can do anything I need to do. So I was like, okay, I'm going to really start working. I'm going to have a daily kind of ritual of reading and writing. I'm going to start applying for these workshops. So I applied for Lambda, which is the LGBTQ plus. Mm-hmm. Workshop. And I got into that workshop and I remember being literally flabbergasted. I was like, I have published nothing. I don't have anything. And I got to that workshop and it was a literal life changer. I met the faculty, but also it was the first time I've been around so many different kinds of queer people who were all, making work. I left that workshop with lifelong friendships. Like Tommy Pico was there when I was there and he officiated my wedding this last year. There's just like people that are in my life, like forever now that I made that are like writer friends. And I was like, oh, it's so enriching I don't need to have an MFA, I think there's absolutely nothing wrong, like it's great to get an MFA, but I was like, I couldn't do it, but I can have these things and they're gonna serve in the same kind of way where I'm getting the support and the kind of camaraderie and the sharing of work and that stuff was so important to me. So I started doing that. I applied every year and I, I very luckily, every summer after that, got into a workshop. So I would like take my time from work where I'd have these like two weeks saved up and I'm like, okay, I'm taking this one week and I'm going to a workshop I went to Tin house after that and I was like, I'm treating this really like bootcamp, MFA, I went to every lecture. I wrote notes. Every time I was a workshop, I took notes. I was like, I'm gonna treat this so seriously. And then after I would leave, I would have this huge spurt of creativity where I'd just be like working nonstop because it felt like I was so like full up, like full of the brim of like lots of good things. So I, from there, like a tenhouse, that's where I found my agent. They have these like agent meet and greets and I ended up meeting an agent that was right for me. And then Tenhouse in the. Publishing my first novel too. So it just kinda all built from these spaces where I was like, I'm gonna make opportunities happen even if I feel like opportunities can come in any kind of form. So I was like, it doesn't have to be this. Like I went to an MFA and I had a faculty and I had a cohort. It can be like, I'm going to a workshop and I'm gonna find an agent and I'm gonna make it happen and I'm gonna write the whole time. I just was like busting, ass constantly, I feel.
Brett Benner:So most of these workshops,'cause I'm just, I'm being not familiar with them, they last a week or two weeks. Is that how they normally go?
Kristen Arnett:Yeah. And some of'em are different too. So I did like the ones I ended up doing where I did Lambda, which was wonderful. I did Tin House like three years in a row. And I also did Kenyon Kenyo n Writers Workshop and the Lambda and Tenhouse are. Those are interesting in that you show up with work that gets workshopped that you've already written. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kristen Arnett:You're looking for feedback and so you sit with like your, your group that's there in your workshop and everybody kind of gives you feedback or you get help from not only the instructor from, but from other people in workshop. And then they have Adjacent things going on, like there's like panels with different writers who were there. There's lectures from different authors. There's like editors things. So if you're looking to, maybe you're trying to submit to journals or you're trying to get work published, like an essay or a short story, you can hear from editors. It's a lot of like information that is hard to find if you're on your own. But Kenyon is a workshop that's like incredibly generative. So that was like a great workshop for me. It's actually where I started the genesis of my first novel, mostly Dead Things, was I was at that generative workshop where every day we were writing something new inside of a workshop space and I was like, this is incredible. I love it. We get kind of prompts from a, our workshop leader and then like we'd go and we'd work and we'd also get like kind of craft intensives with talking about perspective and narrative art. And different things like that. And I was like, this is all stuff that's so cool that I've just been kind of just fumbling around with or feeling out on my own. And so to hear here's the process or here's some reading, extra reading you can do to like figure out more if you're interested in or like how you can fiddle around with structure inside of like shorts fiction or essays or poetry. These are all usually like around a week. And some of them cost money. Some of them you can get like scholarships too, which they're like even far between. I would save up like every year, any of like my fun money or like, not that I had that much gone but if I got like any money back for taxes when I had to do my horrible taxes every year, that was literally earmarked for like I was like, okay, I'm gonna take my days off. I'm gonna take this money and I'm gonna go to workshop. Because I was like, I'm taking this as seriously, like it's a heart attack. I'm gonna be so serious about this. And I also just got so much joy from it. So some of it too, I asked myself even if like this doesn't result in an agent or it doesn't result in a book deal, is this meaningful for me? And the answer to that was like, absolutely yes. Because I felt like the best version of myself being a writer and being surrounded by other creatives and talking about work and talking about books and talking about structure and craft. And it was just the most fun. And so this is obviously what I'm supposed to be doing. I mean, which is, that's
Brett Benner:amazing.
Kristen Arnett:Away from library work.'cause I love library work too. Those are just like two disparate things that also manage to touch each other.
Brett Benner:Well, it's like you're filling your tank, you know, you're, and you're so filling that side of yourself. Alright. So for your latest book, do you have an elevator pitch?
Kristen Arnett:It's like one of those things where I'm like right away it's a very specific kind of story Lesbian, but like, fuck boy, birthday party clown in central Florida. Makes friends with a much older magician. For, and in order to advance her career and like erotic high hijinks ensue and a lot of discovery about like art and capitalism and like the culture of living inside of central Florida.
Brett Benner:We have, talk about where did this idea come from? From you? What was the genesis? Where did Cherry come from? I. Go.
Kristen Arnett:It's one of those things where the process for writing this book, like it took, I took more time to think about it than I did to actually write it. Like the writing of this book was very fast. But I truly thought about the concept for a whole year because I was like, I don't want to fuck this up. Like this is such an important project to me. Sometimes I feel like for myself, I know when something's a novel because it feels so big, my brain barely wants to touch it or hold it. I'm like, oh, that's an exciting idea. Like that's an exciting idea. It was like that for mostly dead things. It was like that for my second novel with teeth, which was this. I got this idea of a thwarted, child abduction, and I was like, Ugh. this is exciting to start from. But for this one with a clown, I was like. Funny birthday party clown. And some of it too is the book is not about me. I mean, I had so much fun writing it. But I think a lot of the humor or ideas about humor and comedy that are in there, like something like that come from questions I've thought about before, like past and also too like a. I get a lot because you're right, like when you said earlier, like, people follow me on social media and have like maybe an idea about who I am or like, and I also think too, I'm pretty upfront about who I am. So kind of what you see is what you get. I am like who I am on the internet, but I've had people before like read my work and be like, oh, I thought this would be funny. Like, you're so funny online. Like they're so, you guys make a joke. Then I'm kind of like. Do you think a 300 page book is gonna be like 140 character tweet? Is that what you're like equating those things to and so I kind of was like, ha ha, well if you want a clown, I'll give you a clown, I'll go give you something funny. And then it kind of became a thing where I wanna write a really, really funny book. I wanna write a book and it started to take shape in my mind and I'm like, okay, a clown, like somebody who's gonna perform for a captive audience. Somebody who's like their sole purpose is to entertain in this kind of way or do performance and it's also kind of drag. So I was like, there's a lot happening here where I thought about it the more I was like, this is really interesting to me. It also is I'm from central Florida and I'm always trying to write about Central Florida, and I was like, so much of like what people. Think about where I live it's a place where people travel to, as a tourist destination, but they also think it's tacky. So they have preconceived ideas about what counts as art there, right? Like, so people love to come to Orlando and be like, oh, I've been to Orlando. I'm like, no, you went to Disney World, you didn't come to this place. And also now you have ideas about what you think art is from being here. You think that you have an understanding. So the clown for me became a way to kind of be like hierarchies in terms of like,'cause even in performance culture there's ideas about like what counts as good art versus bad art. And so I was like, this is really exciting to me to think about. And then the shape kind of organically came to me as I was beginning to think about it a little.'cause I don't outline. That gets really boring for me and I. I've discovered that if I sit down and try and act like I'm gonna outline, then when I sit down to write, I'll go in the complete opposite direction. So it eventually became, each chapter was kind of its own bit its own joke. And these jokes all sit together to form maybe a set. And so this is the clown set for the most part, except for that like chapter in the middle that's like. Magicians act.'cause that needs to be its own structure that needs to be the magician's voice. But it truly became this is going to be about what is, what's the cost of making art? Like what's the cost of making art, and especially art that people you think is really important, that like fuels you, but other people maybe don't value. Or have a preconceived idea about what that art is that you're actually trying to make. And maybe it's looking down on it. So it, it turned into something where I was like, this is very much a, a central Florida book. It's very Orlando book. And it's very much about the entertainment industry inside of. Central Florida. And it also was just so much fun to write. Like every day I sat down to like, work on that book was a genuine pleasure. It's the most fun I've ever had working on a project. When I got and I wrote it so quickly, I sat down and it took me over a year to think about it, but when I sat down to write it, I got it done in like three and a half months I wrote that. Wow. And the draft, as it is, is pretty much the book. Like it's pretty much Wow. How I wrote it. And I felt like,'cause I let it, I let it like kind of. Steep long enough in my brain, maybe, you know? Yeah. Sit there and I got to think about it. And it worked. And it worked.
Brett Benner:And. When you begin to formulate this idea of this clown and who she was and what type of clown, I'm just so curious, were there people that you talked to in terms of your research? Did people emerge that you're like, okay, this is closer to what I see her as versus this, because it's also to be a party clown is so specific as well. I mean, there, there's such an interesting thing to me about. Somebody who is in this point of her life where she's, she's 28 years old, trying to get it, figure it together. A lot of things could seem seemingly like shit. And then you're also having to go and get it up for a bunch of kids and make balloon animals. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
Kristen Arnett:So we knew right away that this was the kind of clown. That I wanted her to be. I'll also be completely honest, my favorite thing about doing research is whenever I get into research and I discover there's a lot more beneath the surface, like
mm,
Kristen Arnett:maybe like an iceberg, like where I think it's this one thing at the top, but then when I go below I'm like, oh, there's a lot more here. And so researching clowns and clowning was a lot like this.'cause I thought I had an idea about,'cause I was like, I'm doing birthday party clown. I'm doing like this kind of specific clowning. But then I was like, the more I did research, I want her to be. A professional, at least in her own mind. She's a professional, so she's gonna know a lot about like the mechanics of humor, the aspects of like physical comedy. I want her to have a grasp of like history of clowning. And it's one of those things too where maybe that doesn't necessarily have to come out verbatim her saying something on the page, but I wanna do enough research that it feels embedded into her. So if I do need to give like one little sentence like I did like. History of clowning and like different kinds of clowning. There was so much to dig into. I had to stop myself.'cause I think that's something that writers do also, where we will start like. Doing research to the detriment of actually sitting down and typing out the work. So I was like, okay, I can't
Brett Benner:You're wormhole, you're clown wormhole.
Kristen Arnett:Exactly. So I was like, okay, so I spent like a lot of time watching a lot of videos because so much of it is this is an extremely. Physical book.'cause a lot of clowning is physical act. Mm-hmm. So I wanna see like how bodies move, how clowns move when they're performing. I wanna see like application of grease paint. I wanna see tutorial videos and I've watched a lot of tutorial videos on the art of the Pratt Fall. So, oh. Like yeah. So you'd get these like clowns without their makeup on, sitting and talking about and here's why this is important or how you would do this, and why the movement of the body here and they're describing in this kind of way where it's almost like a physics lesson and also here's why? Why it's might be funny for an audience and here's what you can do so you don't hurt yourself. So it's like actually this kind of thing.
Brett Benner:Mm.
Kristen Arnett:And then that same person would have on their gear and then perform like the pratfall. So that's two kind of sides. I was like, this is fascinating. So it's wow. A lot of time like kind of watching things and most of the clowns that I watched in these kinds of videos were like, I was like, I want performance party clowns because that's the kind of clown that she wants to be. But then I also I looked at like adjacent, kind of circus clowns because there's a lot of similarities in touch between them. Like one, one talks and one doesn't. Right? You've got like VO one has a voice and is a very specific and one is like, I read about this a little in the book, but like one's like, kind of like group based, right? Like the clown? Yeah. Media they're all kind of. Touching and like tangential to each other. So I was like watching that. I'm like, okay, what's the difference between these and like, who I wanna write? And then I also kind of like Cherry's, like I'm not a standup comedian, but I think in her head she kind of is, she's her own best audience, so,
Brett Benner:yeah. Well that's what the interesting thing was. I was finding so many comparisons too, and I, and I was almost gonna ask you that when, when you were doing in construction, I, there was a point that I was like, it's so interesting, like I wonder why she chose clowning versus standup because there's such a parallel and in terms of that trying to be funny, but you know, also so many standups are just so miserable. By nature, which is what they're pulling on, frankly, to do their material. And we forget, you know, you watch them on stage and you're like, oh my God, they're so funny and they're so sharp and they're so quick, and at the same time, they've got disastrous personal lives and they're just miserable people. And admittedly they'll tell you that. Yeah. So. And she's not a miserable person by any stretch of the imagination. Cherry to me, she's thriving. She's trying very hard Yeah. To do the best she can in the circumstances that she's in. You know what I mean?
Kristen Arnett:Yes. I also think too it was really important to me because I think that, right. That's a great question. I think in her own mind, she's her. She's the funniest person in the room all the time. And I was like, but so much of clowning for her is putting on a persona. Yeah. So the funny, she gets to be funny but not herself. So she doesn't have to like be like, here's personal information about me in order to be funny. Right. Because I think she's really guarded with the kind of stuff that's happened with her mom and like things with her brother. And so being a clown means she gets to be funny, but people don't get to have access to who she actually is as a person. And that's a line that happens because standup uses a lot of Personal, like Sure, a
Brett Benner:hundred percent. Yeah. Well, and I also do, because she does, she has a very complicated relationship with her mother who was also a lesbian, which was, this whole thing was so fascinating. And of course I'm not gonna get into any spoilers of the book, but there is this element I kept. Thinking about because she's lost her brother. Her brother has died, who was kind of the light of her mother's life and also the kind of naturally this, the center of attention naturally. Really funny. Yeah. So I kept thinking, how much is she. Really trying to get through her mother's indifference. Really striving to be seen by her mother. Yeah. Who refuses to even call her Cherry. Right. She calls her Cheryl. Yeah. Her, her, her given name. So I kept thinking and how many people who are performers are really trying to be seen in one capacity or another.
Kristen Arnett:Yeah.
Brett Benner:I think it's really, I think you're
Kristen Arnett:right. I think that's a lot of, it can be a lot of like performance and stuff too. And I. I wanted to,'cause it's a fine line.'cause it's a, it's a first person, right? This book works best in my opinion as a very voicey first person, somebody next to you telling you like a joke, like right to you. So I really wanted her to be very first person. But that means sometimes that you are allowed to be what does cherry understand about herself and what does she not see? Right? Like, what is she like able to like, mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kristen Arnett:What, what kind of information does she actually is she willing to like, engage with and what stuff will she not let herself think about and some of that stuff is her, for myself was thinking about her relationship with her mother. Like how much is she willing to admit to herself about what she does for a living and how like her relationship with her mother has maybe informed some of the choices that she's made. that's always fun for me'cause I love like the unreliability a little bit, like just a touch of unreliability of being like,'cause that's so human to me. Like, we all have these like reasonings and thoughts about like, why we choose to do things. And it's possible that a lot of the time, like the things we're telling ourselves aren't necessarily a hundred percent of why we make any kind of choice because you know, we're not we we're not able to see with any kind of like level of clarity.'cause we are biased in our own particular lived experience.
Brett Benner:Sure. And also just. Let's be honest. The career to say, well, I'm a clown. You know what I mean? Just, just to lead with that. Because even, and, and even for people to say, well, I'm an actor, you know, it's immediately like, what have I seen you in? But if you say, I'm a clown, what that does and what that says, that alone is funny right there. You know what I mean? And because inevitably you see the reaction of every person trying to be like. Oh great. So what, where like, you know, where like, are you a member of a circus?
Kristen Arnett:It's really funny. And then it became a thing'cause that was so funny to me. Like sitting and like being like, how does this sit fit inside of like a novel, right? Like, how can this be used as kind of like a narrative tool moving through here?
Mm-hmm. Like
Kristen Arnett:what would it be like, right. Going through life and being like, this is my art. I care about it very much. And then like, be dating. Be meeting friends, trying to get work and then having to have conversations about this. You know, the clown in the corner of the room, you're like, this is who I am and this is what I do. And then also it became a very fascinating thing to me because like clown in popular culture is divisive, right? Like I had to be. So like people have real phobias about,
Brett Benner:oh, huge.
Kristen Arnett:And so, and for like, good reason like Stephen King and I love, I'm a Stephen King reader, so I'm just like, I know this like the zeitgeist of like the clown and it, and you know how clowns sit in horror. Like if you like a Spirit Halloween store, you go in, probably the first thing that's gonna scream at you is some kind of clown, right? You know, big teeth. So I was like, okay, you know, like what does it mean then to be really wanting to do something where you wanna entertain people, you think it's funny and it's your art and it is such a trigger for some people that they run screaming from a room or perhaps like react violently towards you. But I was like, okay, right. Something that can sit in here too. So it was. Really interesting to like kind of delve into that and think about it.
Brett Benner:Well it's funny'cause I Googled day before yesterday. I was just looking at it. I was like, clowns in Florida.'cause I was expecting this whole thing. And the first thing that comes up is that creepy story about that man who was going around Florida. Like the clown would just stand there, I think, with the balloon. Yep. And I remember when that came out and I was like, and I'm not usually freaked out by clowns, but that one, and I think they even did a documentary about it. They did, yeah. But I was like. Well, here we go. This all tracks, all of it. Which brings me I gotta veer off her for a moment because I have to talk about your setting. Okay. Because I have to say Florida, and I was almost thinking, I was like, Kristen, if I was thinking about, I, if I said to you, I'm thinking about maybe moving to Florida, what would your pitch be?
Oh, because,
Brett Benner:and as, and like, and, and bearing in mind, like as a queer person and maybe as a, like, you know, I have a family, but what would you say? Like yeah, the reasons for, for it. Because you're a huge advocate for your state.
Kristen Arnett:Yes. I always have to say like, I'm like unofficial brand ambassador. Yeah, from Central Florida like the welcoming committee, like maybe if you like show up at the airport there, I am. Like ready to take you off somewhere.
Brett Benner:Right.
Kristen Arnett:I think that first of all specifically, central Florida is way more queer than people think. Mm-hmm. One of those things is that we are a hospitality hub. Like we're a tourist destination for a lot of entertainment and a lot of queer people are in entertainment. Right? Like, it's like music, dance. Theater, the arts. Like that's not straight people. Hello Disney. Yeah, that's plenty gay people. That's lots of gay people. So when we have, we have like a lot of entertainment stuff here and like. Queer spaces and things to do and like, so like nightlife for sure, right? Bars and things like that. But also just a ton of opportunities to do things with families and with kids and different things. It's also a space that's like, Florida's gorgeous. We have crazy weather, but like honestly, climate change is real and so does everywhere. So it's like you're not gonna live anywhere at this point. Now, where there're not is, is it Some kind of like, there's horrible, horrible wildfires all through like California. You know, hurricane went up and it went in through Asheville, North Carolina. Know, it's
Brett Benner:pick your, pick your place. I mean, I really think at this point it's really just Ohio and Pennsylvania. Maybe.
Kristen Arnett:Yeah, maybe. Maybe for now. Fingers crossed, right? It's like there's things everywhere and so that's the thing. It's like Florida. Has this reputation because of the way it's been like portrayed specifically in the media for one. Right? And some of that is like our sunshine laws, which means unlike other places, as soon as something wacky or weird or like a Florida man thing happens here, the news gets to immediately put that on. Whereas other places, there's a buffer in between where it doesn't immediately get, so the same kind of shit is happening other places. It just
gets
Kristen Arnett:immediately put into the news cycle here. That's one. The other thing is, is we have. Horrible government, but also I would say, right, so does America now. So that's its own thing. But we have gorgeous opportunities to do things with the nature that like you cannot get anywhere else. Like literally this spring you could go down the road to look at hundreds of manatees just swimming in the springs. And that's free to do. That's something you can like go and do this kind of stuff. We have the best food. My wife is such a foodie. She used to work for Eater New York.
Brett Benner:Oh wow.
Kristen Arnett:Yeah. So she moved down here and she is like, now she's like evangelizing to everybody. She's like, the food scene here is incredible. We have Michelin star places and these aren't places necessarily out at the parks. It's small, local places that are literally down the street that you can go and eat, the best meal of your life here. So great food. We have great entertainment. We have beautiful, gorgeous weather. We have like all kinds of outdoor stuff. You can do nightlife stuff, you can do stuff with families. it's like an all inclusive place. And for right now anyway, Orlando's a blue hub, like we're a blue spot in a red state. So, yeah. Anyway, any, if anybody needs any further like encouragement, I'm always trying to get people to be here that are cool and clear.
Brett Benner:At the very least. You've, you've sold me on the Orlando part of it, so. Yeah, it's weird. It just, Florida to me is always, you know, besides the Taylor Swift song. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. But we all watch it every four years at election time to see, you know, the, the, the madness that is Florida and, and the kind of crazy diversity and how things swing and how, how varied it is. But like many places, it just seems to, you can speak to this, it just seems to have increased over the years and, and it's, it's changed over the years. Yeah. I saw DeSantis, DeSantis was on yesterday talking about wanting to create his own doge department for the state of Florida, talking about cleaning up the corruption that's been existing for so many years. I. I watched a woman yesterday and said, Republicans have been in charge for the last 24. So there you go.
Kristen Arnett:Okay. Ron DeSantis here in Florida. Even Floridians don't like him. Like, I was just like, it's like one of those things where like even the Republicans here don't like him. Like, you know, you like go around and see bumper stickers of cars. I was saying to my wife, I was like, people are like embarrassed by that man. Even the Republicans are like, he's a moron. There's like, that's the thing too, is we've had such an influx of people coming down here, during the Pan Peak pandemic, Florida's government opened up spaces here before many other places were open. And so the government, like encouraged these Types of people who were like incredibly radically conservative with money, with these kind of crazy ideals to like move down here to live, because they're like, you don't have to abide by these crazy rules. You can just go out and do whatever. Our state also is like. Every time there's like an election, it's really hard to have conversations with people'cause we're super gerrymandered. So it's like everybody's like, go out and vote and it's like, you don't understand. People are trying to, it's like really made into a point where you can't be like, succeed or do these kinds of things. Here it's like, and like also like cost of living and how things are now from all these people coming in and just purchasing up all the property who they don't, they're not even like, like it's a crazy situation where it's. It's deeply unfair. And I think constantly we're told like, why don't you just leave and move somewhere else? And first of all, where, and second of all, that's like such a place of privilege to be you can uproot yourself and your family and go somewhere else. Like you have to have money and a job and support to be able to do all that stuff. But anyway, I love Florida. I think there's like, like with many things, there's plenty of things wrong here too. I'll be the first to say that, but it's something where I'm like. I also think there's such community support here and people who really want things to change and to, and to work on stuff. And that's important to me. I.
Brett Benner:Well, and I wouldn't even have brought this up except it is something you use in your fiction it's almost like another character, right? Absolutely. You, you really flesh out your world and it's, it's so atmospheric. You know, one of the great things is Cherry works in this pet store, I I loved this. I loved the, I loved her whole job. I loved this whole environment of the pet store. I loved her friends. Darcy is such a great character and just that world that you created, it, it's just such a rich. At which other place, you know, that was just like, and, and, and just felt so real again. Because it's, it is this whole time in somebody's life where like 28 to me is. You've been out of school long enough, whether it was just high school or college, that you feel like you start to be figuring out what your shit is, but you don't quite have it together yet. Like I've always felt I don't think people really start to figure it out until they're mid thirties and I think you hit 40 and you're like, okay, I'm in a stride now. Which only sucks because you're like, God damn it, I can't do all the things I want it to do because I don't have the energy, or like everything hurts. You know? But I really do believe that, and I think she, she, she's very typical that way. They all are very typical that way.
Kristen Arnett:Yeah, it was really important to me also.'cause that was one thing I knew I was gonna do. I was like. She has to have a job where she's making some kind of wage because like clowning obviously isn't something she can just do and be able to live and pay rent or something. But then I was also like, that's so much of the kind of job economy and situation here. It's like you're working maybe one job, but you're probably working two or three in order to just like be able to do things. And what does it mean to have to work all these kinds of jobs? To be able to support making art, but then you're tired and you're like, I'm so worn out from having to do these things and so I was like, I, I was like, capitalism is like a big part of this book.'cause I was like, that's like what it's like to be a working artist is like having to do a bunch of different things to try and make it. So you can just live like a place to live or
Brett Benner:Yeah. Have money
Kristen Arnett:to eat. And, and also it becomes a place where you meet friends and like those are people you know, and it's becomes its own kind of community and to me I was like a pet store, especially with like different kinds of pets is like, so specifically Central Florida, we have a lot of different kinds of exotic animals or people with pets and different things. And I it also. Became like a little bit of a bit for me.'cause I love the idea of it being like aquarium select three, but there's not like an aquarium select bridge, like
Brett Benner:Exactly. Right. Like we we're the first two. Yeah. Yeah. It's like that, that place in and of itself is a, is a total sitcom waiting to happen. Yeah. With those characters. Yeah. Alright, before we leave, I have to read you this quote from your book I'm gonna read you this part of the book and then my question for you is this. Okay? It says this quote, there's a yellow post-it note stuck to my dashboard. I put it there almost five years ago. After an especially hard week of work, a week when everything that can possibly go wrong had gone horribly, terribly awry. My brother dead. No money, nowhere relationship, no gigs in sight. What do you want to be remembered for? Now Terry says, I wanna be remembered for making someone laugh for them to fucking feel it right in their guts, even if they don't want to. So my question for you is, yeah, what do you wanna be remembered for?
Kristen Arnett:Oh, this is such a good question. I think a few different things. I think if you'd asked me, and this is like maybe my favorite thing about being a person is like, I think our answers can change all the time. Mm-hmm. I think if you'd asked me even like 10 years ago, I would've been like, I wanna be remembered as like a writer who's like established and made their mark. But I think now where I am as a. Person, I wanna be remembered as somebody who was an important part of a community and brought a lot of joy and care to the people around her. Like that's what I think I really would want is for people to remember me as like a bright light and somebody who really cared about like being part of things and being part of things with other people. I think that's what I'd say. Now check in with me again on another 10 and see what I say.
Brett Benner:I love that. And I think you and I, it goes back to we now, we've bookended our whole conversation.'cause I feel like that's, that's how you come off. You come off as a bright light so I love that that's what you said. It's nice. Thank you. But I will check back in 10 years and then you might be just completely cynical Well, this has been so lovely. It was such a pleasure to sit down with you. Please, everyone get the book, buy Independent if you can. But check out her other books as well. You're, you're just a joy and congratulations on all of this. I feel like I should be wearing a, a red clown nose on my face right now, but.
Kristen Arnett:You are in your heart and that's all that matters. Yes,
Brett Benner:yes,