Cynthia Weiner, A Gorgeous Excitement

In this episode Brett sits down with Cynthia Weiner to discuss her debut novel, A Gorgeous Excitement. They talk about New York in the eighties, the shocking inspiration behind the book, and we learn if Cynthia is more an optimist or pessimist. 

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www.cynthiaweiner.com

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https://www.instagram.com/cynthiaweiner

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Transcript

Brett Benner: 0:00

Hello, it's Brett and welcome or welcome back to behind the stack this week. I am sitting down with author Cynthia Weiner, whose new book, Glorious Excitement comes out today. But before we get into that, there are a few new releases or which are also coming out today that I wanted to talk about that sound interesting to me. The first is three wild dogs. And The Truth, a memoir by Markus Zusak. Markus Zusak, of course, is known for The Book Thief, but this non fiction memoir is about his family adopting three troublesome rescue dogs. And as a dog lover, I think it sounds pretty good. Pretty fantastic. I think everybody in the world will be, uh, knocking down doors to buy the latest installment by Rebecca Yaros, Onk's Storm, the third book in the fourth wing, series, and then also out today, Something Rotten by Andrew Lipstein, Which is a twisty, thrilling tale of loyalty and deceit. Lovers and fools, Andrew Lipstein's Something Rotten proves that sometimes to be kind, you have to be cruel beyond belief. Uh, so I'm really interested in that one. Okay, so, let's get to today. Speaking of new releases, Cynthia Weiner's A Gorgeous Excitement is out. I loved this book. Love talking to Cynthia. Let me tell you a little bit about her. Cynthia Weiner has had a long career writing and teaching fiction. Her short stories have been published in Plowshares, The Sun, and Epiphany. And her story, Boyfriends, was awarded a Pushcart Prize. She's also the assistant director of the Writers Studio in New York City. A gorgeous excitement, her first novel was inspired by her upbringing on New York's Upper East Side in the 1980s and particularly by the notorious Preppy murder of 1986. Weiner now lives in New York's Hudson Valley. So enjoy this episode of Behind the Stack. First of all, thank you for being here. I'm, I'm so happy to meet you and I loved your book. I just thought it was, Oh my gosh, I thought it was so fantastic. Not only is it so compelling, but I also, it seems weird to say, but I thought it was so much of it was so very funny at times. So congrats. It's

Cynthia Weiner: 2:22

so incredibly wonderful to be here and to, for you to. To have me. I really appreciate it. I love your podcast and I'm, I'm thrilled to be here. So so much for having me.

Brett Benner: 2:34

There's a lot to cover and as I was writing things out last night, I was like, Oh my God, I have to talk about this and this, but just for Our listeners, our viewers, do you have an elevator pitch for the book?

Cynthia Weiner: 2:43

I will say maybe this is my elevator pitch. The book opens with, it's, I said more of a kind of a, a summary. It opens with a, a flashboard at the end of August when, you know, a young woman, 18 year old young woman's been found strangled to death in Central Park. And the guy who did it, this wildly handsome, popular, preppy guy, claims that she died by accident during rough steps that she initiated. so the book is inspired by the preppy murder of 1986. so we begin with that image and then I go back to the start of the summer, the start of June. And we meet Nina Jacobs, who's the main character of the book, um, an 18 year old living with her parents on the Upper East Side, her profoundly depressed mother. And Nina's desperate for two things, to lose her virginity. before she heads off to college and, she's the only one of her friends who still has it. And the second thing to help her mother, especially to help her mother avoid electroshock, therapy with which she's been threatened with. So as the book goes on, Nina meets a new friend who introduces her to cocaine, which leads to all this sort of reckless choices as she pursues this popular troubled guy. And at the same time, her mother suddenly seems to get better with a new medication. It turns out she's in a manic episode. So as the book goes on, these two parallel, out of control, excitement rises and the mother is in mania and Nina's doing more and more cocaine and it escalates to what could be. Oblivion for both of them.

Brett Benner: 4:08

So this is what's fascinating. And because you have to explain the Genesis for you. And can you talk a little bit about how this came about? Because this is nearly as fascinating as the book itself.

Cynthia Weiner: 4:20

So I grew up in New York City. Nina Jacobs is pretty similar to me. I grew up in New York in the eighties. I was a Jewish girl, kind of an outsider in this Upper East Side, very preppy, waspy, elite. society. There was this bar that everybody went to called Dorian's on the Upper East Side, and there was a guy there who was extraordinarily handsome, very mesmerizing, and his name was Robert Chambers. He ultimately, at the end of the summer of 1986, did strangle Jennifer Levin to death in Central Park. and again, he did call it an accident and said it was because she was hurting him with rough sex. so I knew him that summer. I spent a lot of time at Dorian's. He was very close friends with some very close friends of mine. So I drank with him. I spent time with him. He was at my parents apartment. Uh, we smoked pot together. He, he, he yelled at me cause I like threw a little joint out the window before it was done. So, I mean, I knew him, you know, a couple of weeks before the actual murder. I was, this makes it sound like such a drug drug ad, but I sort of was. So I was smoking hash with him behind a different museum, behind the Museum of Natural History. And I guess he was always behind museums. And I was so out of it that he, I remember him carrying me to a taxi. So. You know, he, he was this guy that, that, of all the people you would think would never do anything, would never need to, or want to hurt a woman or, or, you know, had girls throwing themselves at him and, and, wound up, you know. Yeah, killing this girl and seemingly out of nowhere because they had had a relationship already, a sort of casual relationship. And yet on this night, something happened and it erupted in this terrible, terrible situation.

Brett Benner: 6:05

Obviously that's such a huge thing for all of you and your friends. But where did this then begin to take root for you as a, as a story? Like at what point in your life where you're like, I've been thinking about this a lot and there's something here.

Cynthia Weiner: 6:17

I tried to write this as a short story over the years. Um, I tried to write, uh, from the point of view of the girl, you know, who was killed. I tried to write from his point of view. I tried to write from the present day, when he was out of prison, you know, I just, I had all these different things. And at some point, I remembered that in fact, my mother, We did have a manic episode one summer. I remembered it was the same summer. Strangely, I didn't know that for years. Suddenly I, I made that connection and that was the beginning of, having a sense of what the book could be about. That it was, it was about that the incident would take place at the end of the summer. And I wanted to write about what led up to it and that sense of the 80s and the sense of, you know, that kind of. It's sort of very, knife edged exhilaration of the 80s, where everything was neon and exciting and Madonna, but there was this darker underside to it about, about money and about elitism and about cocaine and about, where a climb is leading to a crash and you don't quite know what's going there. But maybe you feel a little bit of that under edge. And I realized that was the story I wanted to tell, especially with the mother. Also, I have four nieces and as they got older, You know, I kind of saw what they're navigating in the world and the world of boys and patriarchy and you know, it seemed that things that should have changed a lot over 40 years, but maybe they hadn't changed so much. And so I was thinking a lot about that also. Another thing I was thinking about, there's a lot in the book about antisemitism and about the girl is Jewish and she lives in this country. world where the most successful, powerful people look down on Jewish people. And again, it seemed maybe over 40 years, some things have changed, but I don't think they have so much. So that's something else I wanted to approach in the book too. So all of those things sort of coalesced over the last few years. And that was when I, I found the story to how to tell this story.

Brett Benner: 8:15

The book is getting an amazing comparisons of Jessica Knowles Bright Yellow Women to Jay McNeary's Bright Lights Big City. It's funny because another person. As I was reading this, I thought it was, Brett Easton Ellis The Shards, just very much because of the kind of excess and the drugs and the alcohol and the sex and all of it. And, you know, Easton Ellis wrote effectively about his time and his friends at the Buckley School. But I thought of that and thought of you. In writing this and how was it taking a real incident from your past surrounding real people and kind of extrapolating that, but then creating something new out of that. Can you talk a little bit about that process? Yeah,

Cynthia Weiner: 8:50

I mean, it's, it's hard, it's hard to base a fictional novel on a true crime and on your own childhood in a way. I mean, obviously I changed all the names. I mean, it is a lot. I mean, I really fictionalized everything, most things. I wanted the same time period, so I, I did follow that summer pretty closely in terms of when, you know, when the crime occurred. And then I also started the book, just sort of serendipitously is going to sound like a funny word for this. But. It turned out that Carla, Carla Hanson, that model who had her face slashed at the beginning of the summer, uh, it turned out it was exactly on June 6th, which is where I wanted to start the book anyway. So that, worked out as, as the beginning as an image for the beginning of the book, you know what I, I found photographs of people who were not the real people. I put them up all over the office. So I would look at them and remind myself that I was writing fiction. You know, I tried to change as much as I could in terms of the characters, but I did keep a lot about the city, which, which was fun. It was fun to, to write about the real things. I have a scene in the store, Think Big, which I don't know, remembers, but where, you know, you'd have those huge, Uh, paperclips or, or videos or whatever it was and, so that was fun. It was fun to have some real 80s things, you know, the Spirucci and the Palladium and the Subway and to have some of those that were real, to set the scenes. But in terms of the people, I tried very hard to keep reminding myself to change personalities. You know, things might've started with real people, but they certainly became composites over time.

Brett Benner: 10:23

Sure, what I loved about this, two things. Yeah. And you've hit on both of them a little bit. The first is New York is almost its own character in the book. And I love the way you've captured it. For some people who have no idea, I remember because I moved to New York in 1990. So it's slightly after when this kind of took place. But even that 1990, it was still a far cry from the New York that Exists now. And, you know, that was when time square was just beginning to get it's makeover from Disney effectively. But I remember going in, you know, in my high school, we had a very active thespian group and every year we'd take a New York trip and that was like a big deal. So I remember going as a 16 year old into New York and in hindsight, and this is why I want to ask you so much about living in that city and being a young woman in that city at that time. But I remember thinking. Were my parents crazy? I was from Pittsburgh and they let, you know, chaperoned to go to New York City. And I remember running, like having some kind of peacoat cause I thought it was cool and running into Times Square, which was that time like porn houses everywhere, which, so like, just, I'd love to hear your talk to like talking about. What that experience and arguably then for, for, for Nina's experience of being a young woman in that city. And, you know, a lot of what she, where she is, is like the Upper East Side, but you were everywhere or she was everywhere.

Cynthia Weiner: 11:45

Another reason, obviously it had to take place in the eighties was, you know, there were no cell phones. there was no, you know, GPS, your, Obviously your parents couldn't find you, you know, as you said, wherever you were, they just, they sent you off and, you didn't, they didn't hear from us again until maybe we came home later that night. So it was just such a different time. My parents were out every night doing their own thing. They were so uninvolved. I mean, all the parents were so uninvolved in, at least in my circle of friends, in our lives, they were, they were socializing and I don't know where they were, but they had no, I. interest in us, but they kind of had no interest in us. You go to school and you'd say, okay, I'll be home for dinner or else I'm going to so and so's house or I'm sleeping over, they didn't call. We didn't call them. So, so we kind of did whatever we wanted. And I know I wasn't hanging around Times Square that much. I have to admit, I did get my fake ID there, of course. But we went to the park all the time. We just had parties in the park. You know, I think the drinking age had just changed to 21, maybe. So you could still. Get anything you wanted. I remember friends would sleep over. We would sneak out this, I can't believe in the middle of the night and just go to just kind of gross bars on meeting you and strange men. And then we would just go home. Yeah. There was a real sense of invincibility, which I imagine everyone feels all over the country, you know, maybe at that age where it's just, I think that, and that was another part of this case. Of course, that was just so, so sickening. It was. And, you know, you, you, you feel invincible at that age and you just think, or at least I thought nothing bad is ever going to happen, nothing bad seemed to be happening. And, you know, you, we went, we'd go to the park to watch the sunrise, a big group of girls. We'd sleep over at someone's house and then we'd go to the park and, you know, some gross guy came along, just push him away or whatever it just didn't, you know, I, I'd be sunbathing in the park and I'd look up and someone was, you know, over me, a guy and, you Stuff pants down and I would just be like, stop, you know, and then I'd run away. Like, it just felt like escape.

Brett Benner: 13:43

Yeah.

Cynthia Weiner: 13:44

Then we could all go to nightclubs. There was a thing that happened when I was in high school that studio 54, uh, for, so I just found all of these old cards from there for some reason, started addressing high school students. They wanted high schools. I, it's. seems crazy now, but, I started inviting all the high school kids to Studio 54. This was in the early eighties. And so we'd all go to Studio 54 all the time. My parents had pads of these high school, I mean, I'm sorry, of these invitations to Studio 54 that they used as notepads. We had so many of them sent to the house that you were supposed to distribute to other friends. I posted one of them on my Instagram. I found one of them.

Brett Benner: 14:22

Well, no, I have to read this because I, I did take a screenshot of this but this is a card at the top that says, a list of names, but the one that stood out to me, of course, was Tom Selleck, and it said, invite you to a preppy party at Studio 54, Friday, October 15th, 830 to 1030 preppy dress come early, stay late. Now, what I love is, um, and all of you, I will link, Cynthia's Instagram below. So you can see this yourself, but she attached this to part of her journal or her diary, which says Sunday, October 17th. This weekend was interesting on Friday. The song went quite well after school. I went to Katie's and Nikki Brown came over that night. We got a little stone that went to studio with an arrow pointing up as if, you know, just to confirm, uh, which was like a mob scene. There was a huge line and people were pushing and fighting and throwing up. I love that so much because not only do you encapsulate the moment, but also you as just this young girl. It's so it literally could have been my daughter. I loved that. But that's crazy that they were effectively almost recruiting. Yeah,

Cynthia Weiner: 15:30

all under age. I mean, we were all under eight. Like we were all 16 years old. I don't even understand.

Brett Benner: 15:35

And never carded probably. I did

Cynthia Weiner: 15:37

have my, you know, my Times Square fake ID that said. Cynthia Smith or something. I don't even know. And I'm sure the year I put, I'm sure I made myself like 50 by mistake. Like I didn't even understand, you know, what year I was supposed to put.

Brett Benner: 15:48

Did you used to drill down with your girlfriends and say, tell me when your birthday was again. Tell me when your birthday was again. Tell me your name. Make

Cynthia Weiner: 15:55

sure you have it right. Um, but no, we barely ever got asked and there were nightclubs all over the city. We went to area, to Palladium. What were some of the others? Danceteria, I went on my, the woman I babysat for set me up on a date with this guy she knew. And we went to limelight the opening night for that

Brett Benner: 16:16

limelight. That was the one in the church, correct?

Cynthia Weiner: 16:19

Yeah. So just nightclubs were sort of this, this another place to go. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. And again, my parents, I guess they just They just thought it was fun. They were just like, all right, they knew where I was going. I mean, I think I remember saying, I'm going, yeah, I know. I would 54 or I'm going, I think they just thought it was, I guess they thought it was fun.

Brett Benner: 16:38

And then it was just youth. And I'm sure they viewed you as you were being responsible. You generally came home when you said you would. I wrote a, I wrote a list because for, uh, our listeners, our viewers, because this was again, so fun. And this is only a part of some of the references that are made in the book to this time period. And for anyone who is of that time period, you will go crazy. Cause I was reading this last night to my business partner and she was howling. So this is just some of the things, and this covers a range of music, everything. Who's the boss tab, slim, fast, the clash. Mylanta, Talking Heads, Walkmans, Slow Gin Fizz, Newports, Parliaments, Parliaments, Bagot College, Eye of the Tiger, Le Sport Sac, Swatch, Endless Love, Kissing Potion Lip Gloss, The Fly, The Champ, Quiet Riot, Prince, Twisted Sister, Rat, which when then last night we had to sing a big round of round and round, Culture Club, Dianetics, Bad Girls, Lacoste, Dippity Doo, Jiffy Pop, The Palladium, Polaroids, Oh my god, I love this one, Legs, Eggs, I used to play with my mother's as well, Oh my god, uh, Actifed, Dynamints, and Mary Kay. Oh my God, I could go on because I just was like pulling. I was going like page by page. You must've had a, just a, uh, the greatest time pulling up. It was really fun. I was just

Cynthia Weiner: 18:07

looking for my kissing potion. Cause I found, I can't find it, but I, I bought myself a little, I found a place where, where, uh, Uh, they still sell it. Um, you know what's funny? You'd think these references, I'd have to dig to get them, but they were just right at the top of my, I remembered all of, I can remember everything you just said. I'm like, don't those still exist? I don't even know if they still, I think, because they're so, they're so still in my mind. It was really fun. It was really, and I want to say also, I mean, part of the reason that when you mentioned that the book was funny, I'm really pleased to hear that. And I also want to say that, you know, Nina doesn't know what's going to happen at the end of the summer. So I, I felt funny sometimes because I was writing a book about this terrible tragedy, but I also, I wanted it to be from the point of view of this young woman, even though it's third person. So, that's, So I, I, cause she doesn't know. So to her, she's just living her eighties, you know, her best eighties life.

Brett Benner: 19:00

Yeah. All of it. I also thought you, you need to put together or have someone put together a It is a Spotify playlist. You really do. Cause there is so much you referenced here. That's so evocative. And I was like, Oh my God, all right, so let's talk about Nina. I think for so many people, she's going to be an identifiable character. I mean, for her, she's, you know, as you spoke earlier, she's Jewish, feeling like an outsider in this group of kind of, you know, WASP y people. But I think she speaks to anybody who's ever really felt like an outsider in any kind of capacity. But she's also this young woman who is. Kind of, navigating that moment of, still being a girl but becoming a woman, still really aware of her sexuality and wanting something and kind of the convergence of, is, am I in love with this person? Am I in lust with this person? And, there was many times when I was reading the book, I had to stop for a second because I kept saying, these young women are, are, are seniors in high school, which is exactly where my daughter was. And it would kind of floor me for a moment because of the way they were living and their lives in this New York jungle where, you know, arguably Gardner Reed is not the only predator in the city.

Cynthia Weiner: 20:17

Yeah. Someone, someone described my book the other day as, um, they put a tag on it, drugs and longing so much with the book is about particularly longing. You know, that was something I felt so much when I was in his age, and the age of her daughter. I, I felt so much your, I didn't even know what it was for, but to be, to be looked at and to be paid attention to and to be important in some way or for somebody to be significant. Right. You know, the. The upside of my parents, you know, sort of being on their own was that I had so much freedom, but the downside I think was that I felt very, Insignificant in a lot of ways. And, and then, and added on to by being Jewish and, and not, you know, not having known people throughout generations as they all knew each other for years and not feeling very pretty when I was young and looking different from most of the other, or many of the other girls at the time, I know I felt in that Nina just wants to be. You know, looked on as just, as, as, as, as somebody, somebody to be, to be, to be, to be taken account of. And something about Gardner, you know, makes her feel that if he likes her and if he, if she manages to lose her virginity to him, which I don't even know if she knows what that, I mean, she knows what it means literally, but I don't even. It's about that. It's just, it's almost like a stamp of approval or something. She'll have a confidence. She believes, or she'll feel like, okay, I've made it now or I'm okay now. And I think that's what I know. I felt a lot. I felt through my whole life and you know, I mean, it wasn't just when I was 18, it lasted for a long time. That feeling of, if this happens, I'll be okay. You know, or if this happens, I'll be somebody that's important someone special. Special. And I think that that's, that's what, that's what she's looking for. And I hope that that's relatable, as you said, to, to people, because it feels very universal to me, that kind of vulnerability.

Brett Benner: 22:11

Yeah. But it's so interesting because even among her friends or frenemies of this other kind of girl groups, in terms of Gardner, there, there's so many of them that are vying for his attention. And, and so I. I keep thinking all of these girls probably feel a facet of the same thing and feel different for some particular reason, which that is certainly universal. I don't know that, you know, even among the popular girls say, and this is something I've watched very much with my daughter. There's also that hierarchy and where are you within that hierarchy? And even if you're at the top, like gardener's girlfriend at the beginning, it still doesn't mean anything. And it means the fall can be that much more precipitous, you know? I

Cynthia Weiner: 22:55

just spoke to my niece yesterday, who's 18 and she's at college and she's going through sorority rush and. You know, it's, it's still, all those things are still going on. And I don't know if it's different now. When I was younger, you didn't admit to that kind of vulnerability. I think it might be a little different now where, or people are a little bit more open about it. When I was growing up, it was not. That was not cool. That was not it was everything was about being cool and being cynical and nothing bothers you and nothing matters And you know, everything is like interesting as I put in my journal, you know, it You know my another niece told me when she got to college they all did what they call a trauma dump I mean we were not doing that, you know where they all sit around in a room together and discuss their trauma. Um, we didn't do that then. That was definitely not something in the 80s and not part of my childhood. So it may be, I don't, I don't know if it's different now, but it was certainly that compounded that if you felt lonely and if you felt, insignificant or, you know, it was, it was, you just didn't discuss it. And I do remember one point when I was young. I was at, I was at camp and I was sad and I was crying to a friend and she was like, uh, uh, like, no, this is not, we don't, this is, she's very uncomfortable. And it was just like, we don't do this. Like, this is not, and I don't even know if she spoke to me again the whole summer. So when I think about all these girls, they don't, they don't tell each other how they really feel, which I think makes it even harder for Nina

Brett Benner: 24:20

She meets this incredible, young girl, Stephanie. Who is just like, A meteor

Cynthia Weiner: 24:25

and who is open and who is sweet and who thinks Nina is great. I mean, she didn't grow up in that world. I mean, it is great, you know, but she, she sees Nina in the way Nina's always wished to be seen. And I had a friend like I was around that age, a friend from outside of my. Friend group who I met, who saw me that way, and it was the most wonderful experience and I still wanted to recreate that for Nina also, you know, and have in the book where you have a friend who's not your, your usual friend group who, who, Stephanie's just one of those people who's more open-hearted and she talks about emotions and she thinks Nina's great and. What a wonderful, you know, wonderful friend to have

Brett Benner: 25:05

yeah, they're a great counterbalance to each other because she's, she's such a kind of extrovert that she pulls out things in Nina that I, I think Nina had there, but wouldn't necessarily have thought, but what a great way to have it pulled out by someone who is so living out and, and not afraid and kind of fearless in whatever she does. It's a, it's a really cool relationship to watch develop. I want to just talk about Francis and Nina's mother because, uh, you know, as you explained in the beginning, she is such an integral part of, of, uh, of this story and she is kind of a train wreck that begins to escalate as the book goes on. One of the things that I loved about the book is I said there's kind of an underlying dread that exists in the book but it's not necessarily from the places you think it's going to be. Like you get to the first part you know that it's going to end with this girl being strangled in the park but there's so much that leads up to that the kind of under the surface tension and a large part of that I think. Is due to the relationship of Nina and her mother and the unpredictability of what her mother's going to do next.

Cynthia Weiner: 26:13

if anybody, or you can imagine, or if you happen to grow up with or know somebody, uh, you know, a friend or family member who's depressed. if that person starts to feel better, it's the most joyful thing because witnessing someone up close who is that hopeless and that sad is, is, you know, it's, it's obviously more painful for them, but it's incredibly painful to witness, you know, to be there, to just see someone you love in that state. And so to see someone, you know, You love and come out of that state, is amazing and wonderful. And, and so I was trying to portray that Nina, you know, can see maybe it's not so great. And the father also who's, you know, his father is, is, is very devoted to Francis and, and loves her so much and also wants to see her happy. And so it kind of blinds them to, what's not so great going on. That, you know, she's, she's displaying behavior that's. you know, kind of kooky and, and odd. And if they knew any better, they might understand that it's, it's, she's not, she's not well, but, but, but she appears happy. And so to them, her happiness overrides any sense of, of what could really, you know, of what could, of rationality and what could really, yeah.

Brett Benner: 27:36

Yeah. And it's, you also wonder too, again, this being a time piece of sorts, what that relationship and how that would have changed had it been now, how much quicker you would have come to some kind of diagnosis, how you would have understood and had a language to be able to have a conversation about it. But there wasn't that, you know, there was just things that we just didn't. know about. And so you kind of just kind of went with it. And there's a there's a scene that happens later in the book when her mother's kind of on this manic episode, and they come across a policeman and his dog. I won't go into it, but it's so uncomfortable and so horrific and poor Nina, say, poor, poor Nina. And frankly, the poor policeman and, and, and poor dog. Um, one thing I wanted to talk with you about that you talk about in the book, and you'll have to explain this to me. You talk in it about Lee's personality test. Is this a real thing?

Cynthia Weiner: 28:32

In fact, in real life, one of my memories, this all came out of, so, so, do you want to say anything about it first then I can say where it came out of?

Brett Benner: 28:39

Yeah, there's this point later in the book when Nina is talking about this thing called the Leeds personality test and, and she says, what it, what it really does is, um, they'll give you a, a, a, a, a series of words and you're supposed to kind of give your first reaction to that word and depending on how you react to it, whether it's, it could be a negative or a positive connotation, kind of talks about the kind of person you are, whether you're an optimist or a pessimist, is that basically it? It's

Cynthia Weiner: 29:09

lead. I don't know that Lee made it. This was a real test though, that I found. And the reason all of this happened was one of my strongest memories of Robert Chambers was giving him a personality test. And he said his favorite animal was a gazelle. And I have no idea why, but that stays in my mind so much. I wish I could find it. I don't have it anymore. But, so I wanted to include personality. Plus, we used to give each other personality tests all the time. That was such a thing. I don't know if girls still do that. But, and that, and that made you kind of, you know, You know, it, it brought attention to you because you'd say to somebody, Oh, I want to give you a personality test. And of course everyone pays attention because everyone wants to hear about their personality. The one you're referring to was a real test I found where I think one of the examples was like, okay, so, um, if you hear the phrase Rocky road, if you're an optimist, you think of ice cream. If you're a pessimist, you think of like a tough journey, you know, or if you, if you hear, I don't remember what some of the other ones.

Brett Benner: 30:01

Okay. Well, I have some for you. That's why I have these up. Cause I did, I did yours in the book with everyone in the house last night. Like I sat around, like, I mean, everybody, I didn't tell them anything. gave them all the tests, and the only consistent among everyone was, everyone said Rocky Road for them. The association was positive, was ice cream. Right. So, but everybody else for the most part, we're all pessimists, which was, you know, maybe it's the time, but I was like, this is hilarious. Okay. So here I have a few for you to want to ask you words. Cause I went with everybody. I'm like, guys, I need you to pitch in. I need to ask her these. say the word, you say the first thing you think of in terms of a definition. First word, lie, L I E.

Cynthia Weiner: 30:44

You're telling an untruth.

Brett Benner: 30:45

Buckle.

Cynthia Weiner: 30:46

A thing on a belt. Okay.

Brett Benner: 30:48

Bolt.

Cynthia Weiner: 30:49

I say lightning, like a lightning bolt.

Brett Benner: 30:50

Okay, so our results, here we go. So for the word lie. You said to tell an untruth. That would be the negative. The positive would be to put something down or lay down buckle. You said a shoe or a belt. That's the positive. The buckle would be to collapse. That would be like the negative. If something buckled and went down. Uh, and bolt, you said lightning bolt, which is going to be anything. This is funny. Cause usually bolt it says like to fasten something or secure something. The negative would be to leave quickly to get out. So I think you straddle a line is what I'm saying. I think you're very much, you're the optimist and the pessimist. You're not one of the others. Oh, that's

Cynthia Weiner: 31:31

great. Thank you for giving me that. That was. It's really fun. I don't even know why I just said that because I like never think about horoscopes and don't believe anything. And yet I am. I'm like, I'm always like the book. I'm always in between. I'm always all writers are right.

Brett Benner: 31:47

Probably to find the balance. Well, this has been so fun you are delightful. I I'm so excited for you. The book, once again, is a gorgeous excitement. It's out today. So be sure to get it, hopefully from your, uh, independent bookstore. But again, Cynthia, congratulations. I'm so excited for you. Um, it's just a fantastic,

Cynthia Weiner: 32:07

thank you so much. I so appreciate it.