Behind The Stack

A Fall Book Compendium with Sarah Hildreth of FictionMatters

• Brett Benner • Season 1 • Episode 6

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In this episode I sit down to chat with Sarah Hildreth of the FictionMatters Substack, as well as the Novel Parings podcast. We discuss how she started her bookish journey, her own personal tastes, and what goes into curating her sought after and comprehensive Fall Fiction Reading Guide. 

The FictionMatters substack:
https://fictionmatters.substack.com

Novel Pairings Podcast:
https://novelpairings.com

Sarah’s instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/fictionmatters





Watch Behind the Stack on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@brettsbookstack

Bookshop.org page:
https://www.bookshop.org/shop/brettsbookstack

Brett's instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/bretts.book.stack

Behind the Stack email:
brettsbookstack@gmail.com

Brett Benner:

I'm so happy today to have on Sarah Hildreth. Many of you may know her online as, fiction matters on Instagram. Also her sub stack. She's also the co host of the novel pairings podcast She is somebody that I have watched ever since I've been personally on Instagram. I think she has impeccable taste She also you know, what I love about you Sarah is there is something very calming about you like listening to your voice You were just kind of so centered and so lovely and You know, you're a mom. I love watching you with your daughter. So I'm really happy that you're here. I'm really happy that we could chat, getting into fall books and specifically what we will get into is every year, Sarah puts out a fall book compendium. Is that a good word? Can I say that?

Sarah:

Yes.

Brett Benner:

Which we're going to get into. in a second. But for anyone who doesn't know who you are, I just have some questions about you. Like, I want to know, originally, I know you were a school teacher, correct?

Sarah:

Yes, I was. Yeah. And thank you so much. That was also kind. Um, speaking of teaching, I, I, my students always used to, my high school students always used to request that I would read aloud. to them. They were like, your voice sounds like a sleep story when you read to us. That was another career consideration at one point.

Brett Benner:

Or even audiobooks. Did you ever think of audiobooks?

Sarah:

Except I really, I cannot do an accent to save my life. yeah, I taught, I taught school for a while. I, I taught, many different grade levels. I taught kindergarten and then I taught middle school and then I went back and did my master's in literature and did some TA work with college students at that point but then I settled into teaching high school and I think I, I think I taught high school English for seven years before I, left in 2020 for probably obvious reasons. Yeah, yeah. Do you miss it ever? I do miss it sometimes, especially like this time of year, back to school season. I miss that kind of like, that rush. I think the thing I miss the most is just like, the rhythms of a high school and being in, Such a close community, but I also, I don't miss it enough to ever consider going back. It's, it's so much work, and it's a really hard time to be a teacher. And I'm so grateful for everyone who's still doing it, but it's It's a tough time.

Brett Benner:

Yeah, I agree. I think it's so challenging and you, you look at the burnout that's kind of happened and they kind of seem to get accelerated during COVID, but even post COVID, I think a lot of. It's been challenging for a lot of people to kind of get up on the horse and continue it. And parenting, as you know, has changed so drastically too, and expectations have changed and what people expect of teachers and, There's just so much into it that I can't I couldn't imagine now. Did you enjoy teaching high school more than you did? You know lower classes.

Sarah:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I I like there to be Some degree of responsibility on the kids like, you know when you teach kindergarten If they're not learning it's really like it's on you, you know, they they only have the You know attention span that they have and the resources that they have and it's a lot of pressure and I I Found that to be Probably like the hardest work I've ever done, but also not the kind of intellectual stimulation that I particularly enjoy. So high school was a better fit for me, like still exhausting in a different way, but you get to have. You know, real intellectual and emotional conversations with these young people. And also you can tell them like, well, you're great. Is this because you didn't do your homework, which is

Brett Benner:

sure.

Sarah:

You know, a nice thing to be able to say

Brett Benner:

I'm so curious when you were teaching, how much leeway did you have in terms of, uh, picking the books say that Kids were going to read and, or was it a very set, like, this is what you're teaching.

Sarah:

You know, it really changed a lot over the course of my time in this school. So I was at a private school, a Jesuit school, and I taught all girls, which I really enjoyed. and when I first got there, there was a very like strict, this is what we read. Each year, a very canonical curriculum. Probably like the same, many of the same things that we were reading. Yeah. Anyone who's listening was probably reading in high school. Romeo and Juliet. Yes, exactly. Yep. Yep. I taught. I taught Brit Lit and I taught American Lit and it was, I think when I taught American Lit the first year, there were no authors of color in the curriculum and there was only one book by a woman and it was My Antonia by Willa Cather and, and We usually didn't even read all of it. And that book is told from the perspective of a man. So it was really, really, uh, limited. And then over the course of the year, I think like for the time I was there myself and a few other younger at the time teachers, really pushed for more diversity, more variety and more choice, both in terms of, you know, The teacher and the student, like, letting students have more choice in the classroom, but also, like, okay, if they all need to be exposed to Shakespeare, great, but can we each choose what Shakespeare play we want to do, so we're more passionate about it, that kind of thing. But then, at the tail end of my teaching, it got a little bit awkward. more rigid again because, well, mostly because of religious politics and the school was very open, but the Catholic diocese here in Denver is very conservative and there were some, some antagonistic Uh, happenings between those two that kind of made us have to scale back a little bit what we were doing change wise in the classroom.

Brett Benner:

Interesting. And this was all pre, kind of the, the book ban. Yes. All started to take place. Yeah.

Sarah:

Yes. It was like maybe right at the start. I mean, things have just escalated so, so much. And I, I mean, I think we definitely had parents who tried to get books taken out of our classrooms and things like that. but not to the extent that I think it's happening now. All gradual, you know, and then all of a sudden there's this tipping point and it's everywhere.

Brett Benner:

Yeah, it's like the Lobster in the pot Exactly, you know, you don't know you're not aware that it's happening until it's too late.

Sarah:

Yeah, my biggest piece of advice I like to say on that just whenever I have the opportunity is if your kids are in school and you love to see diversity in the classroom in terms of the book selection and And that's just really important to you. Please say something to your school board, principals, English teachers, because we usually only hear from the parents who are like, don't want certain books in the classroom. And if you're like, I really value this, say something. It really goes a long way.

Brett Benner:

Yeah, that's great advice because it's, it's so true. My son's in college now, but my daughter is a senior. But I, I would always ask them in high school to see the curriculum when they got it. Cause I just wanted to see the kind of books that they were focusing on. And so it was interesting, even with my daughter this year, her like summer reading was, slouching towards Bethlehem. So I was so excited. I was so excited to see that. And I know she was kind of like, I don't even know. And I was like, trust me, like, it's cool. You're, you know, trust me, you want this. So all of that's kind of been exciting for me to kind of watch. And they are picking much more interesting things. like my son did Zadie Smith. And all of these things wouldn't have, you previously happened. Um, I, you know, I feel like we just got stuck with a bunch of very dry, dry, dry, melbatosed tomes.

Sarah:

We did. We really did.

Brett Benner:

So then where did you start to make your kind of book imprint, in terms of that community? Where was it first?

Sarah:

So I started my Instagram while I was in grad school. So for my grad school program, we did we could do we could write a traditional thesis or we could do a a like thesis project and so mine was kind of in response to the common core state standards that were Coming out right around that time which called for a push towards much more non fiction in the classroom and So I think, I think their goal was like 60 percent nonfiction in the classroom, and their real goal, to be fair, was they wanted more rigorous reading happening in other subjects, so that, you know, history teachers, science teachers would be assigning Beyo things beyond the textbook to require students to do that kind of active reading, but of course it just got dumped in the lap of English teachers and that, you know, that was worrisome to me because I think that reading fiction provides a really specific and important opportunity for, for learning. And so my project was to investigate what we learn specifically from reading fiction that we don't get other places. And then I, put together some Like modules that if you read like this piece of fiction, here's some nonfiction that would pair well with it so, so teachers could, you know, bring in the nonfiction that was required while still centering.

Brett Benner:

You were like a literary sommelier.

Sarah:

Yes. I mean, I don't think anybody used it. It was just like, uh, you know, I don't know, mock up almost, but I found it really valuable. It really informed my teaching and curriculum design when I went on to do that kind of thing.

Brett Benner:

But in your preference in terms of what you read, would it be fiction over nonfiction?

Sarah:

Yeah, I mean, I just read more fiction. It's not because I don't like nonfiction. Every time I read nonfiction, good nonfiction, I get excited about it. I enjoy it. I just find that whenever it comes time to like choose my next book, it's very rare that I'm gravitating towards the nonfiction. So, yeah, it's just, it's nothing like, like I don't value or don't like nonfiction. I just, every time it's time, I just can't resist a good story.

Brett Benner:

Yeah. And I do think there's a certain stigma attached to nonfiction that for me, it's always been like, Okay, that could be dry. And yet if it's a strong narrative within that nonfiction, like, you know, I just read, say nothing. And that was so incredible. And I just couldn't put it down. And I thought, my God, this is just incredible storytelling, uh, and the way that he structured

Sarah:

it. Yeah. I have not yet read Say Nothing. I really, really need to. I think it's so important for young people to also be exposed to that kind of nonfiction because, you know, fiction and in particular the canonical classics are not. Not necessarily the books that are going to encourage lifelong reading,

Brett Benner:

like

Sarah:

it's, it would be so valuable for teenagers to hear like, you know, this is a, this is another way to be a reader. Like how cool would it be if history classes assigned, say nothing, or some of these books where you could got really invested in, in the story. I, I think, so what my kind of learning and research. Showed while I was in grad school was that there's just a different like I know they've done I should I I haven't read this research in a while So, excuse excuse me if this is a little bit murky, but they've done like brain scans with people who are reading fiction versus reading nonfiction or even like watching a fictional TV show versus reading fiction and the In the act of reading fiction, our brains are required to do more imagining and empathizing. And so we are, when we read fiction, we're like making predictions about what a character might do or interpreting a character's motivations in ways that we just don't naturally do when we're reading nonfiction. And so that's why fiction really Cultivates empathy in a different way than reading true stories does because we have to or we just naturally insert ourselves into the characters lives in a way where we just don't as easily do when we're reading a true story.

Brett Benner:

That's fascinating. Isn't that so interesting? Yeah. And I'm thinking about it with my own reading because that's probably, that's a hundred percent true. I mean, just the whole idea of investment into a character and the situations that they're in and feeling for them. And that's crazy.

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's, you know, it's not to say that like. We couldn't or shouldn't also, be exercising that empathy muscle when we read nonfiction or when we read news stories. It's just, it's just the way our brains kind of naturally enter the fictional space where it doesn't happen as readily with those true stories. So, yeah, I find it to be true for myself too. I don't know if it's like, You know a positive thing about humans that we like empathize more with fictional characters than with real

Brett Benner:

people No, I get it, but

Sarah:

it's that bridge

Brett Benner:

Now, are you someone who generates your, your reading more backlist than frontlist or do you really try to shake it up?

Sarah:

I try to shake it up. I I'm rethinking how I do things at this moment that we're talking because I, I was in a little bit of a crisis as I was like preparing some of my guides and things this year. But I have always liked to have a, a mix, I think I, I probably like read more Front List than I would otherwise because I get sent the books. Yeah. If it weren't for that, I would probably Probably almost exclusively read backlist. I prefer a paperback. I like books that have stood the test of time, even if it's just a few years. Like the fact that we're still, I'm still wanting to read it or thinking about it. Um, but I've kind of previous years kind of constructed my content that I put out so that I have times where I get to focus on backlist and I have times where I get to focus on. On new books. So I put out a summer reading guide every year, but it's all paperback books. And so I read a lot of backlist in preparation for putting that together and then Historically, my fall guide has been all New releases and so I like plan that into my reading schedule. So it's like okay This is gonna be my time where I really read all new books. Though this year I did put some backlist on my, my fall compendium too.

Brett Benner:

Um I was so curious, has, has being a parent changed your reading at all or changed the way you interpret certain things or do things sit differently with you now?

Sarah:

In ways I like Didn't totally expect. I mean, practically it has changed my reading life. Just like when I can read how I can read, especially for audio books. Oh, so many audio books. My kid. was, she's a little bit better now, but she was a terrible sleeper as an, an infant. And she basically like for various reasons had to sleep sitting up for like the first eight months of her life. So, we would just like take turns like holding her while she napped or even at night. It was, it was a lot, but I listened to so many audiobooks during, during those times. So, audiobooks has been key, but then in terms of. the types of things that affect me. It surprised me. I don't read a ton of mysteries and thrillers anyways, but child endangerment doesn't necessarily, like, get me. me all that much worse than I thought it would. But when characters are lonely, it like breaks my heart. I just like can't handle hearing descriptions of loneliness. And then I just think about Louise and I'm like, Oh, I never want her to feel lonely. But of course she will one day.

Brett Benner:

Yeah. I don't know how you avoid it. I felt like someone had pulled off a Band Aid. I didn't even know it was there. And suddenly I had all of this kind of emotional stuff that became very readily available, whether I wanted it to be or not. Oh, that's such a good way

Sarah:

to describe it.

Brett Benner:

And so I was kind of like reacting to things and for me, anything that had any kind of violence, of any sort I was suddenly very aware of and it really kind of kind of wigged me out. Yeah It's

Sarah:

like things that you were once able to just sort of intellectualize all of a sudden become much more visceral and emotional

Brett Benner:

Absolutely. Do you find that your book taste has changed over the years?

Sarah:

A little. I, I mean, I think that, I mean, I used to be a huge snob. I, I mean, a huge book snob, like I would, would only read. What very well reviewed books or classic? Eyebrow literature. Yes. Yes. And that is still my taste. Like after a long journey, I've come back to, yes, those are the type of books that I actually genuinely often prefer. But I love reading more genre fiction now. I like, thinking about genre and how it evolves and how different authors experiment and play with it. So I think I read much more widely now, but one time somebody, told me they're in my, this is somebody who's in my book. Patreon book club. She, she said, you know, I don't, I don't always like the books you recommend, but they always make me think. I feel like that is such, like, as an English teacher, I took that as such a compliment.

Brett Benner:

You're like, my work here is done.

Sarah:

And I, I just, I really like picking up books that I find interesting. Interesting and challenging. I just am not often somebody who's looking for a book that I'm just like, oh, I'm like swooning over This book. That's just not necessarily how I I read and so yeah I tend to like books that again are that kind of like intellectually stimulating. I do, I love feeling deeply for characters and all of that, but I'm not like a person who's like, oh, a five star book is a book I want to hug at the end of it.

Brett Benner:

Yeah, no, I understand. It's funny because I realized over the years that Some of what I respond to in a book is if I have an emotional reaction to it. And if I'm finding myself emotionally connected to the book, that's what resonates for me. I have learned enough now and especially Being on kind of bookstagram and listening to other people like you and many other people as we kind of discuss books I can appreciate a book and I can see kind of What's going on here and structurally what's taking place and I can marvel at that and I there's many things That i'll read and think wow That was incredibly well structured. I had no kind of connection to it. I've also started to go back just this year and think, what are the books. That are still sitting with me as we're coming to the end of the year, you know, and probably those are the books that will be my best of the year because they are still the books I'm thinking about. Cause you know, like you read a lot, I read a lot and there's a lot you go through. And if you ask me four months later, the details of that book, I would. Give you broad, broad strokes, but that's about it. But there's other things that affected me so emotionally that I could pinpoint where I was at certain points reading that book at the time. And that's what really kind of brings me back and says, wow, this is, This is pretty powerful stuff.

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah, that makes total sense. And I just I think it's a really good place to be as a reader to Be able to appreciate books that aren't as resonant for us But to still know what resonates with us like it's nice to have that That balance and and you know, sometimes I I think As somebody who gets to read a lot of books in the year, sometimes I'm reading a book because I want to, you know, get swept away and feel that emotional connection. And sometimes I'm reading a book because I'm interested in how this author is going to handle a theme. A theme like it's not because I think this is gonna be a favorite book. It's just oh, I'm I like books that deal with this theme I'm curious how this author is going to handle it or I You know with our podcast novel pairings we pair contemporary books with the classics we read so sometimes I'm like looking for oh this book feels like it might be a Influenced by the great Gatsby. So I'm gonna read it to note those connections So I I just think when you when reading is part of your job And when you get to read a ton of books, there might be different reasons for starting various books. Not just To find a book you love, which is another great reason, of course, to pick up any book.

Brett Benner:

It's also why, too, one of the gifts of, like, the Instagram world, for me in particular, and I don't know if you felt this, is the discourse around the various book prizes, which has only grown over the years. And I could look at this year's list in particular, like the Booker Prize and even now the National Book Award. I feel like at one point I probably would have been intimidated by some of this stuff, but it speaks to exactly what you're saying, where I can go into these now and say, okay, some of this may not be for me. Some of this might not be exactly my cup of tea, but I can appreciate, say, what the judges might be trying to say with this group. Or again, like you're saying, even how these books. dialogue with each other and how they interact. And that kind of thing becomes an interesting, okay, this is fascinating how these work and how these are internal and how this is structured this way. And, um, so all of that kind of stuff is, is interesting how it reveals itself.

Sarah:

Yeah, I totally agree.

Brett Benner:

Okay. So let's get into fall books because now, now how many years have you been doing this fall reader guide?

Sarah:

I think this is, My fourth year doing it. I think.

Brett Benner:

So tell me, do you know from the beginning, okay, I'm gonna have this many books and once you pick that number, what are your prerequisites?

Sarah:

Okay, so, uh, no. So it's changed a lot over the years. So the first year I did it, I did it I called it five for fall and that was it. I was going to pick the five best to me literary fiction books coming out that fall. And then I offered five more for Patreon members. And then I think I did did it that way for two years maybe. And then last year I made it way bigger. I think 32 new books in it. And it was really fun. The books were, were really good. And they just kind of, as I was reading, organized themselves into these categories that just, it just clicked. But then this year. I knew I wanted to scale back. I just have been sensing in the book world like a recommendation overwhelm and a book list overwhelm. I mean, there are so many, so many fall previews and fall guides and, and for, for every season now. Also, I think with the New York Times best books of the century that came out in the summer, I think that was like a light bulb moment for a lot of readers of the book. Like, oh my gosh, there are all these good books that were published years ago, not just what's coming out now and, you know, I sensed sort of a fatigue with all, all new books, even as we all can't help but get excited by the new books anyways. Of course. So I scaled it back this year and I did, I wasn't sure, I thought I would do 10 but I ended up with 15. Um, books, 15 new releases that I really, really loved. And then I included some backlist books and I didn't read too much for that. I read a couple of things, um, and mostly pulled from books that I'd read previously or books that I had vetted for my, uh, summer reading guide previously and thought they were too dark for summer. So I had a whole category in my fall compendium that's too dark for summer. And yeah, that's, that's how I put it together. So, it felt like a good number, like 15 gives, I think almost any reader will find something from that bunch. But it's not, it's not overwhelming. I think sometimes too, as somebody who shares a lot of book recommendations, I feel sometimes like I'm on this. Treadmill of like I read it and I recommend it and I read it and I recommend it and and I want to like circle back Sometimes and and be like, oh this book that I talked about three months ago It's still good and you can still read it. So I didn't want to overdo it this year

Brett Benner:

Okay, and then how do you like at what point do you start to say? all right, I'm starting to read for the fall and then I know you do like a Um, I say like a media blackout, you know, you don't tell anybody what those books are. So you're just reading these things. So when do you start?

Sarah:

That starts in, usually in July. So my, paperback summer reading guide comes out in May, and I kind of give myself mid May through June to just kind of read whatever I feel like reading. But then in July, I start reading for, The fall and I usually start with some of the buzzy books because I like to vet the things that are going to get a lot of attention and kind of put my, my personal stamp on what I think is worth the, worth the hype. And those are easier to get that early. They just, the galleys are already out or they're available on net galley and they're just easier to get that way. And. July is also when I start contacting Or even june is when I start getting in touch with some small presses because that's been an increased focus of mine is to To vet and feature books from independent publishers. So outside of the the big five and I learned early on I learned like the first year I did this that those are those galleys can be harder to get that you have to uh request early They don't print that many.

Brett Benner:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And a lot of them aren't on NetGalley, so you have to find the person to request them from and then sometimes you can get a PDF. So it's just, it's, it's a bigger challenge to get those, those books, but that's really important to me. So once I kind of have an idea of like, oh, I vetted a handful or two of the really big books and I definitely want these two or three, then I'll know sort of how many more I'm looking for. ish from the smaller presses or not and they're not all small presses, um, but I do like to have that balance of the books you're going to see everywhere and the books that Might not show up other places

Brett Benner:

And for a lot of people who are who would be listening maybe in places Where they don't have the option or they don't know about those small presses because they're not the things that are going to be put On the tables necessarily. Yeah, exactly if it's a barnes and noble or if it's something like that, they're not going to know about it

Sarah:

exactly, yeah, and I always feel like like I you know, like I read them in secret and then my my My Compendium is behind a paywall But then like closer to the end of the year I share more about those small press books because I don't want them to not not see the light of day Because I I want more people to pick them up

Brett Benner:

Do you share with anyone do you share with your husband or Anyone what your books are is like do you like finish something like this is definitely going on.

Sarah:

Yes Yeah, yeah, with him. And then with, I have, my friend, Maddie, she has been in my book club for since its inception. And then when I had Louise, she kind of volunteered to launch the zoom meetings and stuff if I couldn't be there on time. And now I get to Pay her because I make enough income where I can, you know, pay her for her hours each month So she gets to see what's what's on the guide this year, but this year she had a super busy end of summer and early fall so she like I think opened the guide At the very end and was like, Oh, but it was nice to get her reaction before I put it out to hear like, Oh, yeah, I am surprised by these books, or I haven't heard of this other places because she she follows all of the all of the guides. So she, she's got her ear to the ground about what else is happening in the books here. Yeah.

Brett Benner:

Okay. So I'm not clearly, cause you know, I'm not going to ask you to give it up, but is there anything you can say about anything on there? And then I, and then I'll have another follow up to that.

Sarah:

Yeah, okay, so there are 15 books. I should have counted how many are from independent publishers, but there are quite a few this year, I think this year, Um, we've seen a lot of books that are dealing with money and class in really interesting ways. So I have a lot of books that are doing that. Some like buzzy ones, like I will tell you that Colored Television is one of my books on this list. Have you read it yet? Oh my god,

Brett Benner:

I'm reading it right now and it's like, I God, it's so good. It's it's so good. Oh, and you're in

Sarah:

LA and it does it feel like

Brett Benner:

It's I it well she's and she's literally talking about she's describing neighborhoods that I know. Do you know what I mean? It's I like there should be a colored television tour because all of these places i'm like I know all these places. I know everything she's talking about it. It's so right on I like down to schools down to I mean everything it's she's so cool. She's skewering. It's so Brilliantly and beautifully and I can't believe how smart it's just so smart and so good.

Sarah:

Yeah, she's she's so smart This is my kind of year of dancy senna. I hadn't read her before but this year I read new people and caucasia and then colored television and it's just You She's, she's awesome. And I feel like she's just getting sharper with, with each book. So there are, there are some other books that deal with those sorts of things. Some, some bigger ones and some from, from small presses. Um, there's one I really love that's like set in the Midwest in the 1980s that's exploring like this, the lives of this more rural family and and now there's another one that's set more in like, you know, early 2000s and dealing with like that kind of economic shift. So really interesting things. I have a very weird and creepy gothic book in translation on the list, uh, that I, that I love that it's from, uh, it's from a super small press and was such a cool find. Definitely some, some books dealing with women's experiences and mental health in interesting ways. So I, I definitely found there within the 15, like a lot of books that could easily be like, Oh, read this as a bundle. It would make for a really interesting experience.

Brett Benner:

Okay. So separate from your guide, have you read anything recently that you just loved?

Sarah:

Ooh, okay. So, well, right now I'm reading, Tell Me Everything by Elizabeth Strout. I did not vet it for the guide since it's, you know, part of this epic Elizabeth Strout universe. And actually I thought of it and her when you asked about how, like, being a parent has changed my, my reading because just Her books about These very small, quiet lives and the heartbreaks and lonelinesses of, of everyday people like Like, that, that book has made me, like, teary multiple times, and nothing even, like, tragic has happened. Just, just the, like, pain of being a human.

Brett Benner:

I'm also amazed by her that she does so much with so little. I mean, even her, even, it's like, her word count, even, like, just looking at it technically, what she can convey with so few words. It's, it's incredible to me. I haven't read it yet. I mean, I just got it and I'm so excited to read it, but I haven't read it yet, but it's absolutely one I'm going to be reading soon.

Sarah:

Yeah, she's amazing. And I mean, she gives like, there are all these tiny details in her, in her books. And you know, she's just kind of like telling you a story and you're like, how is this so magical? I don't understand the way you put words together that makes me feel this way. I think her books are a great example of that kind of like. the way fiction can evoke these emotions in us. Like if I heard some of these stories just told to me from a real person, I would probably wouldn't care. I don't know, but that's terrible. But when she tells me, I'm like, Oh, I, these people, I just, I care so much about all of them. Um, that is, that is great. And then I'm, I'm venturing more into. Backlist. I am currently reading, As Meat Loves Salt by Maria McCann.

Brett Benner:

I don't know this.

Sarah:

It is so good and eerie. It was on, Marlon James, his, like, Ballot for the New York Times best books of the 21st century. I don't think it made the list But it was you know, one of his top ten and I was like that sounds I've never heard of it before you know, it opens with a like a little fable that's kind of King Lear like where a King asks his daughters, you know, how much do you love me? And one is like I love you like Gems and all the riches and the and his youngest daughter says I love you as meat loves salt And he was so offended that he banishes her From the kingdom and then like years later he he's I he's like lost his kingdom and his riches and he's like sitting at this table and he eats a bite of meat that has no salt and it like And he's like, oh, she was telling me like so clearly how much she loved me with that, with that phrase. So, but the book is about, starts with that. And then it's about this man named Jacob who set in 17th century England and he's a servant and He is involved in, like, politics that could get him into, into trouble. He also has, like, done some things that aren't great. And it's great. It's going to become, I haven't, I'm, I think I'm just getting there like a tale of, of romantic obsession. it's quite dark, but it's really, really good so far. That sounds

Brett Benner:

amazing.

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah. I'll, I'll keep you posted.

Brett Benner:

Okay. Keep me posted. Well, this has been awesome. I so appreciate again, your presence, your knowledge, your enthusiasm for books. It's so infectious and so lovely to hear you talk. For those of you who are interested in this fall reader's guide, you can go to Fiction Matters. On Substack, correct?

Sarah:

Yep. Yep. Fictionmatters. substack. com. And,

Brett Benner:

uh, you can find it there. So definitely check that out. And I will have that all linked below for you to make a quick entrance to that world. But this has been a delight. I look forward to continually watching. what you post on your platform and as well as watching lovely daughter Louise, which is just like a delight to watch as well, to see her grow up.

Sarah:

Oh, thank you so much, Brett. Thank you for having me on. This was really, really fun to actually get to, to talk with you about books. Never

Brett Benner:

actually, we've never actually chatted like this. I feel like this was our, our, um, speed date. Yes. Well, I think a lot more time. But yeah, I think it went well. I was like, there might be a second one.

Sarah:

Love it.

Once again, thank you to Sarah. And if you liked what you heard, please like, and subscribe. Also, if you have time to leave a review, that would be absolutely amazing. All of that really helps. The books that we talked about today, of course, will be available on my bookshop.org page. And I will see, well, next week. Thanks.